Hope & Change

hollywood44 · Post by **hollywood44** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:10 pm

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who paid attention during the campaign - he was pretty clear about the need to clean up Afghanistan pre-election.

Anyone who voted for him thinking otherwise was ill-informed.

Whether one agrees with the escalation or not, there's no bait-and-switch or trickeration in play here.

bensco · Post by **bensco** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:43 pm

We all need to be careful what we ask or wish for...

Tokyo Fan · Post by **Tokyo Fan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:32 pm

Tupelo Son wrote:
Tokyo Fan wrote:I was responding as a "resident Bush hater."
I don't think I ever hated Bush. He was too entertaining.

Now Cheney's a different story.....

I do admit I miss dcarter's "Bushisms" tag line, with a fresh weekly update.

Tupelo Son · Post by **Tupelo Son** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:59 pm

Tokyo Fan wrote:I was responding as a "resident Bush hater."

I don't think I ever hated Bush. He was too entertaining.

Now Cheney's a different story.....

Tokyo Fan · Post by **Tokyo Fan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:34 pm

I was responding as a "resident Bush hater."

Tupelo Son · Post by **Tupelo Son** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:26 am

I'm sure the handful of folks that see/saw him as the second coming probably are scratching their heads. The informed and reasonable among us aren't.....not yet anyway.

ShuckOwens · Post by **ShuckOwens** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:15 am

Tokyo Fan · Post by **Tokyo Fan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:19 am

It was a straight forward, blunt speech. At least the portion I heard. I don't disagree with any of the snippets posted on this thread. One clear difference, Shuck, with Bush, is tone and lack of arrogance. You don't have to be a pompous ass to be strong and direct.

If your question about pulling the lever is in regard to Afghanistan I will say that Obama is staying true to his campaign. But I wish he wouldn't as I think we have long since completed our mission there (for which I supported Bush). I will add that I think we will continue to hold onto a few bases within both Iraq and Afghanistan, even after we say we have pulled out, as that is pretty much the way we have established outposts all over the world out of "enlightened self interest". And then we make the host country pay for this through a Status of Forces agreement. And I don't see anything wrong with this at all as it is usually considered mutually beneficial. We extend our military reach and keep immediate danger form the shores of the homeland. The host country expects the protection of the United States, the most powerful military in the world. (Sometimes they can get nervous about this (will we really be protected?) but that is part of the normal back and forth of exerting influence). But as far as Afghanistan is concerned I wish we would simply declare vistory as we kicked the living crap out of the people responsible for 9/11 (yes Bin Laden may still be around somewhere but he isn't out living the high life), keep a couple key outposts in the country and get out. But I am not angry at Obama for having a different view.

I am irritated with him (Obama) on some other issues as I think he is attempting to reach out to obstructionist Republicans too much! But then again, he might be craftier than I think. I recently read a book on FDR to see how he managed to get Social Security passed and it certainly wasn't a cake walk.

Grifterwithafunnylittleha · Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:47 pm

Love December when our lives were lost so long ago due to Methamphetamine being the final straw? (Remember how we are all supposed to tie things into the general theme of country [*our])

Grifterwithafunnylittleha wrote:If there's one thing I like to do, it's drink American Domestics at the White House (Don't steal my line, beaux). I love how at this point in the evening after all of the chores, dishes, trash, dog-handling, working-out, talking about work, lighting off fire-crackers, tuning a gold 50th strat with the ass sanded off of it and a fat humbucker tilted towards the high E13 with a new fulcrum plugged into a loud amp ... I just lost my train of thought, but this language has piqued my interest in the worldwide dialog and the transformation of our President:

"Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this: The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms. The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest -- because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity. So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace."

-President Obama 12/9/09 Oslo, Norway

Granted, this is one of the only quotes I read from his speech, and I haven't seen but a few more lines. But, I kind of like how it makes me consider alot of history. (Of course, I change my mind alot. Remember Change YOur MIND by NEil Youbluengsongersingsguy?) - Shabbyhorse

Tupelo Son · Post by **Tupelo Son** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:22 pm

Why not just post the entire speech.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 99499.html

For me the jury is still out on Obama. I'm bummed that he's chosen to send more troops to Afghanistan, but not surprised. I'm glad we finally have a president that isn't easily swayed, and I'm happy that he's being a strong and vocal catalyst for change here at home. I voted for him and stand by it.

Grifterwithafunnylittleha · Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:35 pm

If there's one thing I like to do, it's drink American Domestics at the White House (Don't steal my line, beaux). I love how at this point in the evening after all of the chores, dishes, trash, dog-handling, working-out, talking about work, lighting off fire-crackers, tuning a gold 50th strat with the ass sanded off of it and a fat humbucker tilted towards the high E13 with a new fulcrum plugged into a loud amp ... I just lost my train of thought, but this language has piqued my interest in the worldwide dialog and the transformation of our President:

"Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this: The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms. The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest -- because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity. So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace."

-President Obama 12/9/09 Oslo, Norway

Granted, this is one of the only quotes I read from his speech, and I haven't seen but a few more lines. But, I kind of like how it makes me consider alot of history. (Of course, I change my mind alot. Remember Change YOur MIND by NEil Youbluengsongersingsguy?) - Shabbyhorse

ShuckOwens · Post by **ShuckOwens** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:56 pm

ShuckOwens · Post by **ShuckOwens** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:15 am

Jay Farrar

Hope & Change

hope and change

Bump, myself because this is real sor(e)t of weird around...