Key changes
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key changes, chord progressions, roots/thirds/fifths, major/minor/augmented, and diatomic dynamics. it's all well and good. discuss among you. however, music has the power to cause emotions to well up within us. these feelings are gripping often irresistible and seem to emerge from nowhere. these feelings affect our perceptions and generate a behavioural pattern. music has the ability to inevitably tap the still, mysterious deep well of our emotions. music communicates, vacillates, eradicates and excommunicates.
music is the window to the soul. the repetition of a line as in a lullaby, the regular beating of a drum, they produce a feeling of physical ease and lull the child to sleep. the rhythmic sound of the train, of waves breaking on the shore, the song of a cricket at night and the whir of the electric fan in the still of a summer afternoon elicits the music of the moment. true music really reaches far deeper and touches our very soul and leaves its imprint on us. it may not be possible to explain or describe this reaction in ordinary language. It can only be felt. it is one of those mystic experiences, which baffle analytical explanation.
the lay listener may not be able to hear which instruments are playing, or which pitches are used. yet, he or she may have no problem appreciating the music as a whole. an experienced listener, on the other hand, may be able to transcribe every note, but might still be at a loss to understand why the music is so pleasing to listen to even for the time. rhythm and melody are two facets of music that allow the seeker within. the experience of beat and rhythm has a simple relation with joy, well-being and even excitement. similarly, melody, which is the soul of music, causes jubilence or agony.
music is the window to the soul. the repetition of a line as in a lullaby, the regular beating of a drum, they produce a feeling of physical ease and lull the child to sleep. the rhythmic sound of the train, of waves breaking on the shore, the song of a cricket at night and the whir of the electric fan in the still of a summer afternoon elicits the music of the moment. true music really reaches far deeper and touches our very soul and leaves its imprint on us. it may not be possible to explain or describe this reaction in ordinary language. It can only be felt. it is one of those mystic experiences, which baffle analytical explanation.
the lay listener may not be able to hear which instruments are playing, or which pitches are used. yet, he or she may have no problem appreciating the music as a whole. an experienced listener, on the other hand, may be able to transcribe every note, but might still be at a loss to understand why the music is so pleasing to listen to even for the time. rhythm and melody are two facets of music that allow the seeker within. the experience of beat and rhythm has a simple relation with joy, well-being and even excitement. similarly, melody, which is the soul of music, causes jubilence or agony.
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you've got a nice ear. i spend too much time trying to find chords...it all sounds grey until I hit the right chord. i haven't checked your recommendations but i still think you have a great ear!megaballs1 wrote:take what you need
leave even more a Bb F G THING
its a different kind of madness thats around OUND!
G C G G C F A
Dm Gm C F F7 Eb Bb A
Dm only get better from here G to
G minor
don't have any F fear
when yer old C
theres no reason G
or rhyme D
sidesteppin A
instrumental Blue Side D A C G
ends on E
I like the chords after push back with all your might D to a Bb kinda thing
All in all, can't think of much of key changes(nor bridges) and am not sure Roll On is a key change...more D A Am G
its more a matter of semantics.
I see what yer saying though
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G,C,D is a 1,4,5 relationship. Like it was mentioned before .professor_squishy wrote:This sounds perfectly logical to me! But more importantly, I just like the sound of it (the song and your explanation)Terraplane wrote:"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."
In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:
C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.
Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
So is A,D,E. My thinking is that a key change happens when relationships
change within the root chord structure. In G,C,D the root is G. Take that
G relationship and add an F. F belongs to C and if we follow the same relationship logic - we find C,F,G (1,4,5) and we can spread out from there adding an Am to color it and go to B to reference the F. When you go to F
it is my thinking that you have the opportunity to create a key change by
making the F a dominant root.
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This sounds perfectly logical to me! But more importantly, I just like the sound of it (the song and your explanation)Terraplane wrote:"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."
In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:
C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.
Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
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Yea, I agree with you guys. I don't think Jay overthinks this stuff - he just lets it flow. To great effect I might add.megaballs1 wrote:Jon is thinking the way I bet Jay thinks. Happy accidents not pre arranged triads and circle fifth stuff.jon wrote:I love a key change if you don't realize it happened and it just sounds dramatic or other.
Ya gotta sneak it in...and it's most often a happy accident if it ends up being successful.
I think he has some voodoo combo of lyrics, melody and then music with experiments.
Art vs science.
Appreciate Jon's input too.
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Jon is thinking the way I bet Jay thinks. Happy accidents not pre arranged triads and circle fifth stuff.jon wrote:I love a key change if you don't realize it happened and it just sounds dramatic or other.
Ya gotta sneak it in...and it's most often a happy accident if it ends up being successful.
I think he has some voodoo combo of lyrics, melody and then music with experiments.
Art vs science.
Appreciate Jon's input too.
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Two songs I'm familiar with that definitely have a key change are Dear Doctor by the Stones and I Can See for Miles by The Who. These changes happen to both be from E to A, a full fourth.RainDog wrote:For those of us with naive ears, it would sure be nice if some musically inclined person would explain how to listen for a key change and/or modulation (whatever that is). Using examples from ACD would make the explanation all the more incisive. Pretty please? Thanks!
If you listen to Dear Doctor (go to www.grooveshark.com if you don't have a copy of the tune and you can play it on demand), you will hear the overall pitch or tone of the song rise after the second chorus. There is a nice little guitar break leading into the change. Prior to this break, the song is in E. After the break it is in A.
You'll hear a similar change in I Can See for Miles around halfway through or more.
Key changes happen in bridge sections of tunes a lot, too, or even a chorus, but these can be less obvious, like all of the theory everyone is discussing here.
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"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."
In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:
C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.
Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:
C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.
Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
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When I was talking about what chords are in the key of C, I was talking about triads. So although the key of C contains the notes C,D,E,F,G,A and B (all the white keys on a keyboard), in terms of triad chords it does not contain the Amaj triad (A-C#-E) since C# is not in the scale.
In my second reply, I mistakenly implied that a Dmaj triad (D-F#-A) is in the key of C. In fact, the Dm (D-F-A) triad is contained in the key of C.
This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj. All this music theory stuff can get complicated as to how certain keys (major and minor) relate to each other and can be utilized in song structures. I guess the bottom line is if it sounds good together then it can't be that bad! (unless you're one of those modern composers that attempt to annoy people with discordant compositions).
Here's at least one link that explains some of the mystery:
http://www.lovemusiclovedance.com/modulation.htm
In my second reply, I mistakenly implied that a Dmaj triad (D-F#-A) is in the key of C. In fact, the Dm (D-F-A) triad is contained in the key of C.
This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj. All this music theory stuff can get complicated as to how certain keys (major and minor) relate to each other and can be utilized in song structures. I guess the bottom line is if it sounds good together then it can't be that bad! (unless you're one of those modern composers that attempt to annoy people with discordant compositions).
Here's at least one link that explains some of the mystery:
http://www.lovemusiclovedance.com/modulation.htm
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In honor of Sturgeongeneral (wherever the hell you are) I say this to you all:
TERENCE
I don't think that's right. I
believe dot dot dot come between
medulla and oblongata or something
like that.
(Morris stares at him)
Well it did. It wadn't before
mankind, I know that much.
MORRIS
The dots are where I say they are.
Melody and tune. That's your trade.
You're a tunesmith Terence.
VAUGHAN
I don't really understand the
meaning of the words.
DOYLE
If y'all don't shut up I'm gonna go
out of my mind. And plus you're
liable to bust a spring in Karl's
head. He's already off balance.
TERENCE
I don't think that's right. I
believe dot dot dot come between
medulla and oblongata or something
like that.
(Morris stares at him)
Well it did. It wadn't before
mankind, I know that much.
MORRIS
The dots are where I say they are.
Melody and tune. That's your trade.
You're a tunesmith Terence.
VAUGHAN
I don't really understand the
meaning of the words.
DOYLE
If y'all don't shut up I'm gonna go
out of my mind. And plus you're
liable to bust a spring in Karl's
head. He's already off balance.
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