Key changes

megaballs1
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Post by megaballs1 »

anybody see an Am and A interplay in Jukebox of Steel?

sturgeongeneral
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Post by sturgeongeneral »

key changes, chord progressions, roots/thirds/fifths, major/minor/augmented, and diatomic dynamics. it's all well and good. discuss among you. however, music has the power to cause emotions to well up within us. these feelings are gripping often irresistible and seem to emerge from nowhere. these feelings affect our perceptions and generate a behavioural pattern. music has the ability to inevitably tap the still, mysterious deep well of our emotions. music communicates, vacillates, eradicates and excommunicates.

music is the window to the soul. the repetition of a line as in a lullaby, the regular beating of a drum, they produce a feeling of physical ease and lull the child to sleep. the rhythmic sound of the train, of waves breaking on the shore, the song of a cricket at night and the whir of the electric fan in the still of a summer afternoon elicits the music of the moment. true music really reaches far deeper and touches our very soul and leaves its imprint on us. it may not be possible to explain or describe this reaction in ordinary language. It can only be felt. it is one of those mystic experiences, which baffle analytical explanation.

the lay listener may not be able to hear which instruments are playing, or which pitches are used. yet, he or she may have no problem appreciating the music as a whole. an experienced listener, on the other hand, may be able to transcribe every note, but might still be at a loss to understand why the music is so pleasing to listen to even for the time. rhythm and melody are two facets of music that allow the seeker within. the experience of beat and rhythm has a simple relation with joy, well-being and even excitement. similarly, melody, which is the soul of music, causes jubilence or agony.

Terraplane
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Post by Terraplane »

Yo, Professor, from the chords posted by Megaballs, I believe you'll find another good example of a circle of fifths -- C to the fifth of G to the fifth of D to the fifth of A.


when yer old C
theres no reason G
or rhyme D
sidesteppin A

unchartedthickets
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Post by unchartedthickets »

megaballs1 wrote:take what you need
leave even more a Bb F G THING

its a different kind of madness thats around OUND!
G C G G C F A
Dm Gm C F F7 Eb Bb A

Dm only get better from here G to
G minor
don't have any F fear

when yer old C
theres no reason G
or rhyme D
sidesteppin A


instrumental Blue Side D A C G
ends on E

I like the chords after push back with all your might D to a Bb kinda thing

All in all, can't think of much of key changes(nor bridges) and am not sure Roll On is a key change...more D A Am G

its more a matter of semantics.

I see what yer saying though
you've got a nice ear. i spend too much time trying to find chords...it all sounds grey until I hit the right chord. i haven't checked your recommendations but i still think you have a great ear!

unchartedthickets
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Post by unchartedthickets »

professor_squishy wrote:
Terraplane wrote:"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."


In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:

C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.

Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
This sounds perfectly logical to me! But more importantly, I just like the sound of it (the song and your explanation) :wink:
G,C,D is a 1,4,5 relationship. Like it was mentioned before .
So is A,D,E. My thinking is that a key change happens when relationships
change within the root chord structure. In G,C,D the root is G. Take that
G relationship and add an F. F belongs to C and if we follow the same relationship logic - we find C,F,G (1,4,5) and we can spread out from there adding an Am to color it and go to B to reference the F. When you go to F
it is my thinking that you have the opportunity to create a key change by
making the F a dominant root.

professor_squishy
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Post by professor_squishy »

Terraplane wrote:"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."


In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:

C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.

Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.
This sounds perfectly logical to me! But more importantly, I just like the sound of it (the song and your explanation) :wink:

JSpill
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Post by JSpill »

I'm just happy that, after taking guitar lessons for the last 3 months, I actually understand some of this conversation.

professor_squishy
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Post by professor_squishy »

megaballs1 wrote:
jon wrote:I love a key change if you don't realize it happened and it just sounds dramatic or other.

Ya gotta sneak it in...and it's most often a happy accident if it ends up being successful.
Jon is thinking the way I bet Jay thinks. Happy accidents not pre arranged triads and circle fifth stuff.
I think he has some voodoo combo of lyrics, melody and then music with experiments.

Art vs science.

Appreciate Jon's input too.
Yea, I agree with you guys. I don't think Jay overthinks this stuff - he just lets it flow. To great effect I might add.

megaballs1
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Post by megaballs1 »

jon wrote:I love a key change if you don't realize it happened and it just sounds dramatic or other.

Ya gotta sneak it in...and it's most often a happy accident if it ends up being successful.
Jon is thinking the way I bet Jay thinks. Happy accidents not pre arranged triads and circle fifth stuff.
I think he has some voodoo combo of lyrics, melody and then music with experiments.

Art vs science.

Appreciate Jon's input too.

trailrider
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Contact:

Post by trailrider »

RainDog wrote:For those of us with naive ears, it would sure be nice if some musically inclined person would explain how to listen for a key change and/or modulation (whatever that is). Using examples from ACD would make the explanation all the more incisive. Pretty please? Thanks!
Two songs I'm familiar with that definitely have a key change are Dear Doctor by the Stones and I Can See for Miles by The Who. These changes happen to both be from E to A, a full fourth.

If you listen to Dear Doctor (go to www.grooveshark.com if you don't have a copy of the tune and you can play it on demand), you will hear the overall pitch or tone of the song rise after the second chorus. There is a nice little guitar break leading into the change. Prior to this break, the song is in E. After the break it is in A.

You'll hear a similar change in I Can See for Miles around halfway through or more.

Key changes happen in bridge sections of tunes a lot, too, or even a chorus, but these can be less obvious, like all of the theory everyone is discussing here.

camaroheadus
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Post by camaroheadus »

Image

Terraplane
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Post by Terraplane »

"This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj."


In this context, I think it's a circle of fifths thing. G is the fifth in the key of C, and D is the fifth in the key of G. So you have:

C to G to D. the verses in Roll on are in C. The G is used to set up the change to D, whereupon you get to the chords in the chorus/bridge.

Hope this is correct/makes sense. It's clear in my head to the extent that anything therein is.

professor_squishy
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Post by professor_squishy »

When I was talking about what chords are in the key of C, I was talking about triads. So although the key of C contains the notes C,D,E,F,G,A and B (all the white keys on a keyboard), in terms of triad chords it does not contain the Amaj triad (A-C#-E) since C# is not in the scale.

In my second reply, I mistakenly implied that a Dmaj triad (D-F#-A) is in the key of C. In fact, the Dm (D-F-A) triad is contained in the key of C.

This is about the extent of my knowledge. Frankly, I don't know how a Dmaj chord relates to the key of Cmaj. All this music theory stuff can get complicated as to how certain keys (major and minor) relate to each other and can be utilized in song structures. I guess the bottom line is if it sounds good together then it can't be that bad! (unless you're one of those modern composers that attempt to annoy people with discordant compositions).

Here's at least one link that explains some of the mystery:
http://www.lovemusiclovedance.com/modulation.htm

countryfeedback
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Post by countryfeedback »

In honor of Sturgeongeneral (wherever the hell you are) I say this to you all:

TERENCE
I don't think that's right. I
believe dot dot dot come between
medulla and oblongata or something
like that.
(Morris stares at him)
Well it did. It wadn't before
mankind, I know that much.

MORRIS
The dots are where I say they are.
Melody and tune. That's your trade.
You're a tunesmith Terence.

VAUGHAN
I don't really understand the
meaning of the words.

DOYLE
If y'all don't shut up I'm gonna go
out of my mind. And plus you're
liable to bust a spring in Karl's
head. He's already off balance.

megaballs1
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Post by megaballs1 »

Jay's San Francisco Dm city
E gondava
F
San Francisco
E

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