Okemah

Tokyo Fan
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Post by Tokyo Fan »

Damaged Son wrote:
Rarefied Farrar wrote:Damaged Son, great, great post. I couldn't agree more with your logic on why we're all "criminals waiting to be called."

Although as Tokyo mentioned, the song also directly references George the senior.
Thanks, Rarefied Farrar.
Regarding the "kinder gentler" bit: Yep, most definitely. You and Tokyo Fan are right, of course. I still feel like the song as a whole isn't preoccupied with Bush Sr. Instead, he's just a detail in a larger observation, as opposed to a song like "Jet Pilot" that was preoccupied with Bush Jr. from beginning to end.
I agree. And think you're spot on about us all being "criminals waiting to be called" as well!

And I appreciate the observations in Jay's lyrics as opposed to being bothered to no end (as evidently Shuck is!).

And Shuck, the SUV no blood for oil comment was hilarious.

Damaged Son
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Post by Damaged Son »

Rarefied Farrar wrote:Damaged Son, great, great post. I couldn't agree more with your logic on why we're all "criminals waiting to be called."

Although as Tokyo mentioned, the song also directly references George the senior.
Thanks, Rarefied Farrar.
Regarding the "kinder gentler" bit: Yep, most definitely. You and Tokyo Fan are right, of course. I still feel like the song as a whole isn't preoccupied with Bush Sr. Instead, he's just a detail in a larger observation, as opposed to a song like "Jet Pilot" that was preoccupied with Bush Jr. from beginning to end.

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Post by Rarefied Farrar »

Damaged Son wrote:@Shuck and Tokyo Fan,

Criminals is probably right up there as one of my favorite Jay-penned tunes.
And while i don't necessarily mind songs that clearly verbalize their distaste for a policy or politician (if written well), I always liked Criminals best of all because I saw it as something different than anti-Reagan/Bush/Clinton/whoever. I heard it speaking to two larger things:

1. mindful distrust in the manufactured intentions of media and lawmakers in general referenced in the first and second verses (although Jay tends to manipulate song structures sometimes, that's about as good a way as i can put it).
2. and then in the final verse, that same mindful distrust framed as a lament for ourselves and the "crimes" and mistakes we commit against each other by word or deed, intentional or not.

The direction of each chorus is pointed at ourselves really, not Someone Else.

"We're all criminals waiting to be called"
"When the smoke seems to clear you can say what you want, we're all criminals here"
We're all criminals looking for something to do"


In other words, yeah...it's easy to find the bullshit coming at us from others but are we prepared to take responsibility for our own when the time comes for a reckoning.

Just my 2 cents. Probably why the March album is still my favorite by Jay and Jeff. They mingled traditional tunes with their own, showing that the things to be angry or aggravated about back then were still around in one form or another now and always will be so don't relax your guard.

EDIT TO ADD: And with Okemah, the subject matter for most songs feels far more direct and dated to their place in time and context. There are songs I like now far more than others on that album because they go beyond that context but that's just my taste. Afterglow 61, Medication, and Chaos Streams being my favorites.
Damaged Son, great, great post. I couldn't agree more with your logic on why we're all "criminals waiting to be called."

Although as Tokyo mentioned, the song also directly references George the senior.

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Post by Tokyo Fan »

Thanks to this thread I am listening to Okemah again...and must say that it has improved with age. I must retract my luke warm feelings towards Jet Pilot. "the revolution will be televised" is too strong for less than an enthusiastic response! I have always liked Bandages & Scars, Afterglow 61, Endless War, 6 String Belief and Gramaphone and a fresh listen reconfirms the strength of these tracks. Atmosphere and Ipecac both fit nicely in the flow of the album. They've aged well. And Medication, I didn't care much for the album version...but have always loved this song live. I now like the album version. And Chaos Streams, I guess I finally get this track that maybe I didn't have the patience for previously. But the biggest surprise for me is World Waits For You. I thought this was a throwaway before with simplistic piano, etc. It must be the timing because listening to it just moments ago was perfect. It would probably be even better late into the evening. And the reprise! Nice. Normally I couldn't listen all the way through the first version.

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Post by Tokyo Fan »

Damaged Son wrote:@Shuck and Tokyo Fan,

Criminals is probably right up there as one of my favorite Jay-penned tunes.
And while i don't necessarily mind songs that clearly verbalize their distaste for a policy or politician (if written well), I always liked Criminals best of all because I saw it as something different than anti-Reagan/Bush/Clinton/whoever. I heard it speaking to two larger things:

1. mindful distrust in the manufactured intentions of media and lawmakers in general referenced in the first and second verses (although Jay tends to manipulate song structures sometimes, that's about as good a way as i can put it)....
The "kinder gentler" reference, though, personalizes it to Bush the First. But I agree that it is meant as a general reference to lawmakers in general. A listener would not need to know that this was a famous quote from the first President Bush to still get the point. As such the lyric will probably stand on its own longer than Jet Pilot.

Damaged Son
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Post by Damaged Son »

@Shuck and Tokyo Fan,

Criminals is probably right up there as one of my favorite Jay-penned tunes.
And while i don't necessarily mind songs that clearly verbalize their distaste for a policy or politician (if written well), I always liked Criminals best of all because I saw it as something different than anti-Reagan/Bush/Clinton/whoever. I heard it speaking to two larger things:

1. mindful distrust in the manufactured intentions of media and lawmakers in general referenced in the first and second verses (although Jay tends to manipulate song structures sometimes, that's about as good a way as i can put it).
2. and then in the final verse, that same mindful distrust framed as a lament for ourselves and the "crimes" and mistakes we commit against each other by word or deed, intentional or not.

The direction of each chorus is pointed at ourselves really, not Someone Else.

"We're all criminals waiting to be called"
"When the smoke seems to clear you can say what you want, we're all criminals here"
We're all criminals looking for something to do"


In other words, yeah...it's easy to find the bullshit coming at us from others but are we prepared to take responsibility for our own when the time comes for a reckoning.

Just my 2 cents. Probably why the March album is still my favorite by Jay and Jeff. They mingled traditional tunes with their own, showing that the things to be angry or aggravated about back then were still around in one form or another now and always will be so don't relax your guard.

EDIT TO ADD: And with Okemah, the subject matter for most songs feels far more direct and dated to their place in time and context. There are songs I like now far more than others on that album because they go beyond that context but that's just my taste. Afterglow 61, Medication, and Chaos Streams being my favorites.

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Post by ShuckOwens »

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Last edited by ShuckOwens on Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tokyo Fan »

ShuckOwens wrote:
Tokyo Fan wrote:
ShuckOwens wrote:Since all of the same 'bullshit' that pissed him off in the Reagan, Bush & Bush II administrations is still going down, I'd give Okemah & The Search a fair listen if he'd release another politically-charged screed in the next 4 years or so.
You've lost me as far as the "screed". If you're talking about Jet Pilot I think diatribe is more accurate description (as it is short and to the point). :lol: But I can understand how the overall Okemah album might ruffle your feathers, Shuck, as pointed as it is.

Reagan and Bush the Father goes back to Uncle Tupelo which overlaps the tail end of Reagan and then all of Bush the Father. I know there is an angrier tone, maybe, in Uncle Tupelo but what songs in particular leap out at you as "screed" like (from Tupelo)? Serious question because I would like to listen to these again to see whether I agree with you or not. It's impossible to miss the directness of Jet Pilot, even for the unsophisticated such as myself.

Obviously I don't know what Jay will write in the future but I have a gut feeling that he wouldn't shy away from Afghanistan or unemployment or wall street (again...who the hell is Dow Jones anyway) just as he's referenced methamphetamines, etc. So I am confident you'll be able to give these albums another listen within these four years! (Note: Jet Pilot is just a so-so song for me. Despite my cold hatred for Bush the Son I never particularly liked Jay's voice in that higher range).
In the Tupey catalog? Lines like "This trickle-down theory has left all these pockets empty" come to mind. "Criminals" certainly (and not-to-subtly) takes direct aim at the father. "Joe Citizen Blues"... sorry... screed might be a bit gentle. Apologies. I'm in a bad mood today. On the way to work, I followed an SUV with a "no blood for oil" bumper-sticker partially, sloppily half-torn (or heat-gunned) off.
Criminals. "we've got shackles to keep the laws
made by men who bought and sold themselveswith not a prayer to keep their powers at bay
they want us kinder and gentler at their feet"

No doubt about it, that's directed at Bush the Father alright. Based on that sort of consistency I am sure we can expect some kind of reference to "change" or "messiah" or some other instantly recognizable reference to the current power structure from Jay over the course of the next album or two. Whether it will be a negative reference or not, though,??? Who knows. Too early to tell.

But I will now go back to perusing Tupelo lyrics for social insight.

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Post by ShuckOwens »

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Last edited by ShuckOwens on Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tokyo Fan »

ShuckOwens wrote:Since all of the same 'bullshit' that pissed him off in the Reagan, Bush & Bush II administrations is still going down, I'd give Okemah & The Search a fair listen if he'd release another politically-charged screed in the next 4 years or so.
You've lost me as far as the "screed". If you're talking about Jet Pilot I think diatribe is more accurate description (as it is short and to the point). :lol: But I can understand how the overall Okemah album might ruffle your feathers, Shuck, as pointed as it is.

Reagan and Bush the Father goes back to Uncle Tupelo which overlaps the tail end of Reagan and then all of Bush the Father. I know there is an angrier tone, maybe, in Uncle Tupelo but what songs in particular leap out at you as "screed" like (from Tupelo)? Serious question because I would like to listen to these again to see whether I agree with you or not. It's impossible to miss the directness of Jet Pilot, even for the unsophisticated such as myself.

Obviously I don't know what Jay will write in the future but I have a gut feeling that he wouldn't shy away from Afghanistan or unemployment or wall street (again...who the hell is Dow Jones anyway) just as he's referenced methamphetamines, etc. So I am confident you'll be able to give these albums another listen within these four years! (Note: Jet Pilot is just a so-so song for me. Despite my cold hatred for Bush the Son I never particularly liked Jay's voice in that higher range).

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Post by ShuckOwens »

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Last edited by ShuckOwens on Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lawrence Fan »

My least favorite album involving Jay Farrar. Atmosphere, B&S and Medication are all outstanding. Not so keen on the rest.

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Post by Dr. Zapatos »

Great album!

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Post by BoogieMan »

The shows with Walbourne were pretty cool, with Son Volt covering Communication Breakdown.

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Post by mikewilliamson »

I really wish they would've released OKEMAH on vinyl... :cry:

Weird to have them all on vinyl except one.

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