Steal This Music

[Tokyo Fan]

Hey, eamon, Miss Directed was my 3rd grade teacher!

I stated that I like Cracker and CvB but that has nothing to do with my assessment of the Professor's whiny harangue. Also, how do Tokyo, Grifter and eamon feel about Lowery connecting the tragic suicides of Vic Chestnut and Mark Linkous to illegal downloading? For that dispicable act alone, his argument loses any credibility it might have had../

You're going to have point out the "whiny harangue" parts. Might be a tad difficult, though.

The tragic suicides: Why would the insertion of a few paragraphs about the consequences of personal, ethical choices make his entire argument lose credibility? Aren't you able to just simply dismiss that part of the argument (if you disbelieve it or don't think it is relevant)? He says these were his "dear friends". Do you have some information that indicates this is untrue? Or do you "know" that the connection between the fall of their income had no connection to illegal downloading? (so, you don't buy this "no other connection" conclusion at all?) Lowery was Vic Chestnut's neighbor...unless you are saying this is untrue as well? Perhaps he had heard him specifically complain bitterly about this issue. I don't know and I doubt whether you do, either. Whether it is despicable or not, though, certainly doesn't detract from the entirety of his argument. (To him, it sounds like something really personal. Not flippant at all).

Note, other than these band names (Cracker and CvB) I don't know the music or the artists from Adam.

Post script on that nutcase Allen, by the way. Could he be suggesting, by his belittling blog post title, that those in the music industry would have been better served by Bruce Springsteen (or whomever he or the greater populace think is better than "mediocre")? Come on. Everyone would be having a field day with that one. "You're part of the 1%! and you wanna tell us that we owe you a living?" or some such bullshit.

Emily White and NPR, All Music Considered: Consider this. Some zealot in congress gets wind of this intern sitting on the floor of NPR's partially government funded offices and decides that her self-proclaimed activities offer excellent fodder for once again seeking to drop government funding for NPR. Stranger things have happened. Rove would have had a field day with this.

Purchase of cd from Amazon. I agree that that is hilarious.

And I have also decided /realized that I sounded ridiculous a day or two ago when I proclaimed that I would only be making omnibus recordings for friends. Obviously, I was talking like this still remained an album oriented age. When the whole damn thing has been reduced to individual songs, that doesn't sound like much of proclamation.

[dcarter]

Hey, eamon, Miss Directed was my 3rd grade teacher!

I stated that I like Cracker and CvB but that has nothing to do with my assessment of the Professor's whiny harangue. Also, how do Tokyo, Grifter and eamon feel about Lowery connecting the tragic suicides of Vic Chestnut and Mark Linkous to illegal downloading? For that dispicable act alone, his argument loses any credibility it might have had.

Also, I ask what the verdict would be on this anecdote? I illegally downloaded Conor Oberst and the Mystic Valley Band Outer South a few years ago. My daughter somehow deleted it a couple months back and I ordered it used on Amazon for $6.53 including postage (cheaper than a download). It arrived yesterday. It is not in the traditional jewel case but in a clear hard plastic case. It has a barcoded label allowing for easy checkout and stamps of various checkout dates from 27 July 2009 to 17 February 2011. Both the disc and booklet have stickers on them proclaiming "property of St. Louis Public Library".

What would Lowery think? What would Morrison and Allen think? What do you think? I think that it is hilarious.

[sturgeongeneral]

Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns with his first recording in five years, "Modern Times,"

Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading means people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why not? It ain't worth nothing anyway."

and grift, watch out for that pachyderm sojourning in the room

[eamon]

I think Cracker is awesome and you that think Lowery is way off voicing his concerns look a little closer. They like many bands were miss directed by their Label (Virgin Records) and that is true. The real concern Here is there a solution to making it in today music industry for a basic band. CRACKER STILL ROCKS!

[Grifterwithafunnylittleha]

Hi friends,

Allen goes after Lowery with a classic case of Rock Talk. Boisterous and belligerent bullying. Real mean words, e.g. arrow slinging (see Uncle Tupelo's classic Chickamauga from Anodyne). Though, Mr. Jay is a real literary stabber with a soft knife, way behind the curtains. You don't really know what's going on right now.

That said, this dialog (lowery's and emily's discussion) is a big, confounded issue due to the amount of voices contributing to the Internet (infinite) and all of the different life experiences people (music listeners and music makers/listeners who live on proceeds) bring to the table/conversation.

Access will not legislate or solve this issue. The Internet is <insert new vocabulary word>.

Everything I've tried to put in the <insert new vocabulary words> doesn't work. Maybe somebody can think of something. Malevolent, doesn't work. Benevolent, doesn't work. My opinion, doesn't work.

Is the Internet still the wild west, open and free? ABSOLUTELY

In the meantime, I'm knocking back redbull and vodkas at the holiday inn right around the corner from the New Orleans Arena ready to rock my ass off to Van Halen on row 5 directly in front of Eddie. Lots of Dads were checking in here with their kids who are going to the show. My girls are too twinny and young this time...

Eat your cake non-payers, non-contributors, reprobates, and wise people.

C'mon!!!!!!!

Love,
Ben

[Tokyo Fan]

About the only person's motive for writing that I can understand is Lowery.

Why would Emily White write such a post? She's literally making out like a bandit with a job where she can stake out a bit of floor next to a potted plant and rip(off) music to her heart's content. Any normal person would expect to lose their job by publishing such a thing. At the very least! Her job prospects now are practically zilch, in the corporate world.

And why would Allen, as a musician, go after Lowery personally, devoting his title and an entire paragraph to insulting him with this "his band is mediocre" so let's laugh and giggle about that instead of addressing what Lowery really said, which was if Emily wants convenience she can purchase her music via i-tunes. Allen doesn't even mention this in his little fluff attack on Lowery even though this is a key point as it directly addresses Emily's final summing up. Allen's response is laughable, but at his own expense not Lowery's. What in the world was/is his motivation? Rather baffling.

This paragraph:

"Musicians (and as a member of Gang of Four I include myself here) don’t automatically deserve to make a living. They are not a special subset of society that should be supported at all cost."

What kind of gibberish is this? Insert any occupation or means of livelihood into where he says "musician's" and see if it makes sense. If the fish are bought by the wholesaler the fisherman gets paid, and so on down the line. If the product or service isn't required, that's it. Unless Allen is talking about government subsidies? I don't think Allen is sophisticated enough to understand such policy issues so I doubt that that is what he means. (And that certainly wasn't something that Lowery discussed). So where did this paragraph come from? Total nonsense to try and derail the argument.

Again, where is the motivation?!

[camaroheadus]

i only steal music from metallica.

[Tokyo Fan]

This perfectly captures how I feel on the issue. Gang of Four's Dave Allen:

http://www.north.com/latest/the-interne ... ocre-band/

What say the Farrar Nation re the above?

oh, and that is a real cheap shot for a title. What an asshole.

[Tokyo Fan]

This perfectly captures how I feel on the issue. Gang of Four's Dave Allen:

http://www.north.com/latest/the-interne ... ocre-band/

What say the Farrar Nation re the above?

Allen says Lowery's use of the word "looted" is unbelievable! THAT is fucking unbelievable. Personally, I think this guy is nuts, possibly trying to garner real sales from the Defend Emily White, Master Thief crowd.

Moving on...If Emily White worked for your company as a (paid or unpaid) intern and did what she did (or the equivalent, taking promotional material received from clients, etc etc), and subsequently posted a world wide web confessional...how long would she remain working there? Or would you promote her to VP? (Think now of the phone ringing off the hook by your valued clients. I just wonder whether a lot of them are part of the DEWMT.)

[Hoops]

When I hear a Cracker song, it doesn't make me want to steal it.

[dcarter]

This perfectly captures how I feel on the issue. Gang of Four's Dave Allen:

http://www.north.com/latest/the-interne ... ocre-band/

What say the Farrar Nation re the above?

[Tokyo Fan]

dcarter: "That being said, rather than long rambling attempts at changing people moral behavior, even though it affects him personally, he should simply blog "you people need to realize that you are a bunch of thieving assholes. Please fuck off".

Yet if he'd done that he wouldn't have turned me into a Loweryite!

Like you, I await (with baited breath) the tidal wave of lively and animated conversation from this board.

[dcarter]

I admit that some of my post may have sounded flippant but it was not. I was being serious and thinking things out.

Again, this is a moral debate. The legality is not in question. The easier it is to get away with shoplifting, to me downloading/copying music without paying is akin to shoplifting, the more shoplifters. It certainly isn't akin to embezzling or bank robbery (yes, the total dollar amount is in the millions - billions? - but that isn't relevant to the individual. He/she is only focusing on their personal behavior. ).

All of the logic, analogies, examples, pleading, shaming, etc. used by David Lowery and his supporters won't have a discernible effect on the behavior in question. Downloading/copying music, movies, etc. on a massive scale is here to stay. There is no going back. Technology has seen to that. Therefore, Lowery and others energies would be best used finding other ways to be financially compensated for their work within the new paradigm. How? Why in Hell would I know?

I respect David Lowery and have enjoyed his music for many years (full disclosure - I honestly have paid for all of his music save 2 fan club albums I received copies of from a glory days jf.net boarder - thanks again, highlandcreek!). That being said, rather than long rambling attempts at changing people moral behavior, even though it affects him personally, he should simply blog "you people need to realize that you are a bunch of thieving assholes. Please fuck off". Then proceed to form some coalition of like-minded, all-aspects of the biz folks to sort it out.

I saw the Dismemberment Plan at a local festival several years ago. I enjoyed their set. I never acquired any of their music, though. I didn't even know who Travis Morrison was. I find myself more in agreement with him on this issue than Lowery. I understand Lowery's emotion. It's personal. I get riled up and bitch about Rick Scott and the Republican legislature trying to fuck with my pay and pension. No one wants their money fucked with. But I can't change Prick's moral reasoning any more than Professor Camper Van Cracker can change the "I want my MTFree" generation's moral reasoning.

I also laugh at all of the people in the comments sections pontificating about who the real music fans are. Shut the fuck up. You sound like morons. Someone's entire music collection can consist of nothing but 100,000 stolen downloads and still derive as much pleasure from music and have it be as important to their life as you do. Please.

Lastly, what happened to this board? (affects crotchety old man voice)Back in the day, there would have been pages of replies in this thread. Fuckin' bullshit.

[Tokyo Fan]

".... and most heathens are young." (dcarter's unscientific poll)

Of course. And this is why musician's are being fucked. It's the young that have always been the largest purchasers of music.

After I posted yesterday I realized what Morrison had done. He had diluted down Lowery's letter into some kind of "don't cast stones, Jimmy Carter lusted in my heart" tactic. The kinds of things that he did, that I did, didn't bring about this crisis. (So maybe, I'll just go back to my normal ways! I don't use much of the new technology anyway.)

In the meantime I'll continue to be depressed while passing around Lowery's masterpiece of a letter to the masses.

[Grifterwithafunnylittleha]

On last Friday night, right at the last minute, I scored a 5th row seat on Eddie's side of the stage for Van Halen's show in New Orleans for the last concert on this leg of the tour. Driving right into Tropical Storm Debby on the fattest stormy Tuesday ever, old school southern Gulf of Mexico style. Get the f-bomb out of my way.

I bought every single VH record in some format or another, Vinyl (still got 'em), cassettes (stolen during college), CDs (stolen by thieves since then), and iTunes (When I downloaded Fair Warning onto my iPOD in 2007, I had the best 6-weeks of lawn-mowing I've ever had.) Then I found Fair Warning on CD at Walmart (newly-opened), and bought it again!!! I love my artists.

I went on a real long stall of listening to Van Halen when I was in the back country. Then I rediscovered my youth in Florida and remembered how I was reverent and respectful again. Fuck punk ideals.

Technology has changed things. I share discs with folks because they love music, and I assume they will do something about it. You know, tithe.

Love,
Grifter