Worst Reason Ever: "unable to reach business terms&quo

mzkmm
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"First, kill all the lawyers." Wm. Shakespeare

Post by mzkmm »

This Son Volt scenario sounds more like a lawyer problem and/or "follow the money." It sounds like everybody was agreeable right up to the day of entering the studio. Contracts are usually drawn up several months ahead of time. The bandleader routinely pays for hotels, musician retainers, equipment rentals, and a number of other expenses during this time. It doesn't make sense that Farrar would go ahead with such a large investment if he were not comfortable with the legal framework. It sounds like the band members or their lawyer were unhappy and must have hit him with new major demands at the very last minute! Several threads in the past have calculated that Son Volt was not a real big money-maker. Farrar must have calculated he couldn't afford the new terms, or his lawyer recommended against them. His lawyer, Josh Grier, is also listed on Wilco and Jayhawks productions, so he must be fairly knowledgeable about music contracts. Could we then assume that some rambunctious less "literate" lawyer wanted to boost his fees by boosting the boys?

Hank Snow
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Post by Hank Snow »

Again, I have asked this to be explained to me, what has Jay Farrar ever done in his background to screw anyone financially?

sam6025
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Post by sam6025 »

I hate to do this, but you sir, are a dipshit.

I Am Who Am
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Post by I Am Who Am »

Why do people keep saying Heidorn and his kids? Far as I know his one stepchild is away at college. And if the Boquists had another gig, what would have stopped Mike from playing with Jay since they are friends and live in the same town, basically, except Jay wouldn't pay up. It must have been a real raw deal for all of them to turn it down. Knowing Farrar's background, it doesn't surprise me.

sam6025
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Post by sam6025 »

To me, this is the most reasonable scenario.

Jay, Boquists and Mike were all ready to do some recording. I'm sure Mike was willing to go along since everyone was coming back. The Boquists probably got offered a job backing up someone who can pull more people in than Son Volt. While I love and we all love Son Volt here, they're not a band that plays anything larger than clubs. They're not even a 2000 person venue band. So, it's not like Jay could offer them the moon. Heidorn probably backed out since the Boquists weren't involved. Honestly, do you think Jay would have booked studio time and sent out press releases if he was looking for a way to get rid of them or shaft them? Here is the reasonable progression:

1. We're doing it.
2. Boquists get offered better gig, decide to do it short term.
3. "scheduling differences" memo to us
4. Boquist find new gig is much more lucrative than heading back into Son Volt, stick with new gig.
5. Jay retools band.

Honestly, I couldn't see Jay putting out the money for studio time and a producer if he was planning on getting rid of the original group. The Boquists are the musical equivilent of assassins, they do jobs on what they pay not what friends are involved...you've got to make money to survive. I just think Jay didn't have as much money as others. Keep an eye on where the Boquists pop up next and you'll have a good indicator on whether this theory is true or not.

I don't blame Heidorn for deciding to use the vacation time to take the kids to Disneyworld instead of touring with people he didn't even know (outside of Jay).

keith21
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Post by keith21 »

Matthew,
A few members, including yourself, have pointed out that its really about Jay's music and little else, and I'm inclined to agree. I hate to get caught up in little tiffs about details. While I disagree with your hardline assertion of evidence as it appears to us fans, I apologize for reacting so strongly. There ain't to many of us Jay fans and I hate makin' enemies of them.
Keith

Hank Snow
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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Post by Hank Snow »

1) Something smells fishy about this whole thing. It was announced, then "delayed", then suddenly - a day later - a whole new lineup is already arranged? Do you disagree that there's likely more to the story than has been told?

I am sure there is lots to the story we don't and won't know about.

2) It is almost a certainty that the other original band members had come to some sort of agreement before the original press release, or there wouldn't have been an original press release. This suggests - and I'm sorry it does, but it does - that something materially changed about the "business arrangement" between that time and now. I think it's more likely that that change would have come from Jay's end than the side of the other members. Who holds more cards?

I don't think you can say "it is almost a certainty". You have absolutely no idea. Maybe he wanted to work with the guys, but also had a backup plan. Who knows? We absolutely do not know. how did he get these other guys signed up so fast?

3) The fact that Jay would shrug off (you can almost hear him shrugging in the second press release) the exclusion of 3/4 of the original members and instantly replace them is a slap in their collective face whether you like it or not. It rewrites history by suggesting that SV was always just a vehicle for Jay's songs. Go and read some interviews contemporaneous with Son Volt's formation, and you'll find that Jay is eager to discuss the ways in which the band together fleshed out all of the songs as a collaborative effort. To have him change his tune today is distressing.

Son Volt WAS a vehicle for Jay's songs, just as he said in the press release. Yes, the music was made collaboratively, and damn as I have said over and over they freaking rock, I LOVE THE ORIGINAL Son Volt, but the songs and the voice are Jay.

A previous poster noted that I'm a new member of this forum as of today. That is correct. In general, Jay's music in recent years hasn't interested me. That doesn't change the fact that for a time - for a long time - Jay was once my favorite musician. I've seen every version of UT from the classic trio to the acoustic duos from their drummerless days around St. Louis to their proto-Wilco lineup. I have a large black and white photo of Jay and Jeff that I took in 1990 in my study. I'm not trumpeting all of this to puff up my chest, but rather to illustrate the depths of my disappointment at this recent turn of events.
The original line up would be awesome, but this will be too.

Call me what you will.

Matthew


Please be sure to read my apology a few posts above!

darell
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Post by darell »

mstecker wrote:1) Something smells fishy about this whole thing. It was announced, then "delayed", then suddenly - a day later - a whole new lineup is already arranged? Do you disagree that there's likely more to the story than has been told?

2) It is almost a certainty that the other original band members had come to some sort of agreement before the original press release, or there wouldn't have been an original press release. This suggests - and I'm sorry it does, but it does - that something materially changed about the "business arrangement" between that time and now. I think it's more likely that that change would have come from Jay's end than the side of the other members. Who holds more cards?

3) The fact that Jay would shrug off (you can almost hear him shrugging in the second press release) the exclusion of 3/4 of the original members and instantly replace them is a slap in their collective face whether you like it or not. It rewrites history by suggesting that SV was always just a vehicle for Jay's songs. Go and read some interviews contemporaneous with Son Volt's formation, and you'll find that Jay is eager to discuss the ways in which the band together fleshed out all of the songs as a collaborative effort. To have him change his tune today is distressing.

A previous poster noted that I'm a new member of this forum as of today. That is correct. In general, Jay's music in recent years hasn't interested me. That doesn't change the fact that for a time - for a long time - Jay was once my favorite musician. I've seen every version of UT from the classic trio to the acoustic duos from their drummerless days around St. Louis to their proto-Wilco lineup. I have a large black and white photo of Jay and Jeff that I took in 1990 in my study. I'm not trumpeting all of this to puff up my chest, but rather to illustrate the depths of my disappointment at this recent turn of events.

Call me what you will.

Matthew
i'll call you a guy who--although i wish you were wrong--is making a lot of sense.

somehow i can't help but think that warner somehow has corrupted the situation. in the first press release they really went out of their way to mention that they had no label, all the while warner is going to release a best of comp.

Hank Snow
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Post by Hank Snow »

mstecker wrote:
Hank Snow wrote: Please don't take offense at this, but mstecker, are you as stupid as you come across in your posts? Are you just kidding? Please tell me you are. No one can really be the way you seem from your posts.
Now why would I take offense at that?

Call me what you will.

Matthew
The reason I said "Don't take offense" was because I honestly meant no offense. I apologize, stupid was a harsh word to use, I guess what I meant was it sounded like you were just purposely trying to take an extreme position to antagonize. I honestly meant no offense.

Nor did I say in any of my posts today that everyone wasn't entitled to their own opinion on what happened, it is a very weird situation, to say the least. We are all fans, we all have opinions, we all think we we will, and we are all in the dark as to the truth, until the movie comes out.

Seriously I wasn't trying to be a dick and a Jay Farrar Nazi and bust you out for criticizing him, I was just getting the impression you were messing around.

Peace

mister spills
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Post by mister spills »

mstecker wrote:
Hank Snow wrote: Please don't take offense at this, but mstecker, are you as stupid as you come across in your posts? Are you just kidding? Please tell me you are. No one can really be the way you seem from your posts.
Now why would I take offense at that?

If you follow the thread, I'm the one that's been attacked from all sides for putting forth some unpopular ideas here. Note that I was the one called "idiot", "stupid", "asshole", and - worst of all - accused of liking Jay Bennett.

Barring new events, I'll end my discussion here by reiterating three points:

1) Something smells fishy about this whole thing. It was announced, then "delayed", then suddenly - a day later - a whole new lineup is already arranged? Do you disagree that there's likely more to the story than has been told?

2) It is almost a certainty that the other original band members had come to some sort of agreement before the original press release, or there wouldn't have been an original press release. This suggests - and I'm sorry it does, but it does - that something materially changed about the "business arrangement" between that time and now. I think it's more likely that that change would have come from Jay's end than the side of the other members. Who holds more cards?

3) The fact that Jay would shrug off (you can almost hear him shrugging in the second press release) the exclusion of 3/4 of the original members and instantly replace them is a slap in their collective face whether you like it or not. It rewrites history by suggesting that SV was always just a vehicle for Jay's songs. Go and read some interviews contemporaneous with Son Volt's formation, and you'll find that Jay is eager to discuss the ways in which the band together fleshed out all of the songs as a collaborative effort. To have him change his tune today is distressing.

A previous poster noted that I'm a new member of this forum as of today. That is correct. In general, Jay's music in recent years hasn't interested me. That doesn't change the fact that for a time - for a long time - Jay was once my favorite musician. I've seen every version of UT from the classic trio to the acoustic duos from their drummerless days around St. Louis to their proto-Wilco lineup. I have a large black and white photo of Jay and Jeff that I took in 1990 in my study. I'm not trumpeting all of this to puff up my chest, but rather to illustrate the depths of my disappointment at this recent turn of events.

Call me what you will.

Matthew
I love you.

Er, uh... in a totally heterosexual way.

mstecker
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:34 pm

Post by mstecker »

Hank Snow wrote: Please don't take offense at this, but mstecker, are you as stupid as you come across in your posts? Are you just kidding? Please tell me you are. No one can really be the way you seem from your posts.
Now why would I take offense at that?

If you follow the thread, I'm the one that's been attacked from all sides for putting forth some unpopular ideas here. Note that I was the one called "idiot", "stupid", "asshole", and - worst of all - accused of liking Jay Bennett.

Barring new events, I'll end my discussion here by reiterating three points:

1) Something smells fishy about this whole thing. It was announced, then "delayed", then suddenly - a day later - a whole new lineup is already arranged? Do you disagree that there's likely more to the story than has been told?

2) It is almost a certainty that the other original band members had come to some sort of agreement before the original press release, or there wouldn't have been an original press release. This suggests - and I'm sorry it does, but it does - that something materially changed about the "business arrangement" between that time and now. I think it's more likely that that change would have come from Jay's end than the side of the other members. Who holds more cards?

3) The fact that Jay would shrug off (you can almost hear him shrugging in the second press release) the exclusion of 3/4 of the original members and instantly replace them is a slap in their collective face whether you like it or not. It rewrites history by suggesting that SV was always just a vehicle for Jay's songs. Go and read some interviews contemporaneous with Son Volt's formation, and you'll find that Jay is eager to discuss the ways in which the band together fleshed out all of the songs as a collaborative effort. To have him change his tune today is distressing.

A previous poster noted that I'm a new member of this forum as of today. That is correct. In general, Jay's music in recent years hasn't interested me. That doesn't change the fact that for a time - for a long time - Jay was once my favorite musician. I've seen every version of UT from the classic trio to the acoustic duos from their drummerless days around St. Louis to their proto-Wilco lineup. I have a large black and white photo of Jay and Jeff that I took in 1990 in my study. I'm not trumpeting all of this to puff up my chest, but rather to illustrate the depths of my disappointment at this recent turn of events.

Call me what you will.

Matthew

cathodebias
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soap opera digest

Post by cathodebias »

TIS WHAT TIS...The music is what matters. It will either be better or
worse individually. Music is subjective. Personally I hope it is closer
to (OLD) SON VOLT than his solo stuff. (Not sure what happened there)
While I love his acoustic #'s, I miss the MARSHALL power chord, strangle
the piss out a the guitar neck solos (ala chickamunga) and vocal harmonies.
I agree w/ Peanut buttercup...No enemies need to be made here. It seems to me it would be time better spent to speculate on such things as what it will sound like, If it will get radio airplay, where the tour bus will break down @, etc. nuff said

Hank Snow
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Post by Hank Snow »

mstecker wrote:
keith21 wrote:Prove ME wrong.
Idiot.
Dear Genius,

It's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, nor the slightest grasp of logic, rational argument or public relations, so I'll stop arguing with you.

Enjoy the fake Son Volt. I won't. Then again it just might resonate at your level of intellect.

When the shit hits the fan in a few days, and the other former Son Volt member start bad-mouthing Jay, are you going to send me my $100? Don't bother, it's probably all of the money you have.

Matthew
Please don't take offense at this, but mstecker, are you as stupid as you come across in your posts? Are you just kidding? Please tell me you are. No one can really be the way you seem from your posts.

Bound to Get Burned
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Post by Bound to Get Burned »

I'm waiting for the movie to come out before I jump to any conclusions, but I bet Jay said to them "A circle needs a center".

jaybird 2.0
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Post by jaybird 2.0 »

This is like the reverse situation of the "Dead Kennedys" touring without Jello. Call it what you want, Jay, but it ain't Son Volt. In a way, I'm glad to hear this - I can safely ignore this now, as all doubt that this is nothing but an attempt to capitalize on past glories has been removed. Ha ha ha.


Gay, lame, sad, etc.

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