A little Insight and Thought Into The "New Son Volt&quo

keith21 · Post by **keith21** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:54 am

Hank Snow wrote: Same with Wilco, Jay Bennett, Ken Coomer, Leroy Bach, and all the others who have left wilco for whatever reason, were ultimately expendable. There is no doubt that they all, especially Bennett, added greatly to the Wilco sound and the Wilco success over the years, but as long as Tweedy is there, it is Wilco.

Good point, Bennett had a tremendous influence on the 3 Wilco records he played on, esp. Summerteeth. But once he was gone, it was still very much Wilco. I wasn't much of a fan at the time, but I understand there was quite a bit of outrage on the net regarding that, wasn't there?

mcarlton · Post by **mcarlton** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:55 pm

I can think of a few examples of where only one original band member continued the name of a band..

King Crimson (Many iterations and sometimes separated by years led By Robert Fripp)
Byrds - McGuinn had a drive thru window going on there. And each iteration had a different sound. I'm sure you would agree that the Mr Tambourine Man era Byrds sounded different than the Gram Parsons era.
Jethro Tull changed personel contantly as well.

Well not that anyone cares. I am happy to see Jay will be with a full band.... Maybe he could get Bob Mould to play lead guitar for him and realy rock out...

Mort · Post by **Mort** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:15 pm

Bozeman wrote: I'm not trying to disagree with you TinyE, but by that logic, Wilco should not longer be called Wilco, REM should no longer be called REM, Kiss isn't Kiss, AC/DC isn't AC/DC..I could go on and on.

Logic? The bands you mention has been around countinously and the line-up changes has come over the years. Son Volt has been dead for 5 or 6 years so the way I see it this is a new band/new project and needs a new name.

Bozeman wrote:Let me provide another band example that's been raised by others. CCR and John Fogerty. The new CCR (Revisited) has been touring and I have zero interest in seeing them. Without John Fogerty, what's the point? His role in CCR is much like Jay's in Son Volt, ...

However, Fogerty is still putting out quality stuff, Blue Moon Swamp is as good as any CCR album he ever put out.

Many here seems to think that Jay "owns" the name Son Volt and uses the CCR example to back that opinion. Only difference is that Fogerty releases his albums under the name "John Fogerty" and not CCR. So that argument is not logic at all. If he had replaced the entire line-up and still released albums under the CCR name, you pro-the-new-line-up-being-called-Son-Volt guys would have had a point.

Anyway, I am really looking forward to the new record!! Son Volt was what got me into Jay Farrar in the first place and the thought of him releasing 15 new songs in that genre gives me serious goosebumps! I love Jays music, which is why I hang around here. It is just the name thing that bothers me a bit. I know it's stupid, but it's the way I feel...

M.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:08 am

I can't believe we are still discussing this. I have spoken on the subject and I am right!!!

Just kidding.

Bozeman and I seem to see this the same way. The original lineup of Son Volt was fantastic, those guys are amazing musicians who obviously help make that "Son Volt" sound as TinyElvis put it. I don't think there is any dispute about that, if that band wasn't so incredible, we wouldn't be here talking about this stuff, cause who would care. But the key to that band, the original son volt, being incredible, was the young singer/songwriter who quit the up and coming Uncle Tupelo and got the record deal from Warner Brothers. No offense, but the others would not have been Son Volt without Jay, but because of his songs, his voice, his music, Jay CAN and WILL be Son Volt without them. No it won't be the 1994-1999 Son Volt, but it will be Son Volt.

The logic that if someone leaves the band, it is no longer that band only applies in some cases. Jay was so dominant in the songwriting and singing, that he can pull off the new Son Volt. Someone mentioned Led Zeppelin, everything about them was those 4 guys and their relationship both in and out of the music. Not one piece of that puzzle could be lost or they wouldn't be Led Zeppelin, that is why they broke up when Bonzo died. That is why when Plant and Page made new music together they did not call it Led Zeppelin, even though legally they could have. With Jay in Son Volt it is him, he is the songs, the music. Same with Wilco, Jay Bennett, Ken Coomer, Leroy Bach, and all the others who have left wilco for whatever reason, were ultimately expendable. There is no doubt that they all, especially Bennett, added greatly to the Wilco sound and the Wilco success over the years, but as long as Tweedy is there, it is Wilco.

Blah blah blah, sorry im rambling this am. Too much coffee.

BoogieMan · Post by **BoogieMan** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:38 am

I was reading a Tweedy interview a while back where he said there's no doubt he's the captain of the ship. But he values the other guys input and what they give to the music or there would be no point with the band and he could just make records by himself. Don't remember the exact words, but he said something to the point of that Wilco stands for change/open attitude towards music more than just being the name of a band. Or maybe that's how I interpreted it:).

Anyway, maybe the Son Volt thing is just something similar, with musicians working in a band setting forming Jay's music? It doesn't matter to me anyway. I just wanna hear new music from Jay. I don't have a history of following UT or Son Volt from the start so I have a hard time getting upset over the lineup things.

Ball Hair · Post by **Ball Hair** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:16 pm

Hey I'll just add one more thing.....I'm not bashing anyone here......I could really give a fuck who's called what here. there is no defintion of a "band" if Jay owns the rights to Son Volt and there music which he does then he can fire anybody he wants.......one guy left, two guys I really don't give a fuck.............There is plenty of good music out there to listien to......Individual People Write Songs But Bands Play Music........I saw Dave and Jim play a couple of tunes together a few years ago in a club in mpls....and they rocked.....it wasn't Son Volt but then again they didn't claim to be...........If son Volt was HIS band why the solo stuff?

Bozeman · Post by **Bozeman** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:04 pm

Of course the other members were important and contributed. But I don't see how that has anything to do with Jay's right to use the name of HIS band, and it is HIS band, that may be where we are seeing differently. I see the band Son Volt as an asset to Jay Farrar that he uses professionaly and artistically. The other members helped him reach his goals both professionally and artistically, and he has now chosen to partner with other musicians to meet his new goals. That doesn't lessen the past contributions of the previous members, and in fact Jay wanted them along but for whatever reason it didn't work out. That doesn't mean he should give up on his goals, and it doesn't mean he should change the name of his band. His band is alot like a company, it has name recognition and branding. No one has the right to take it away from him and I dont' think we should look down on him for using it with new band members. He earned the right to use the name Son Volt through alot of hard work and talent, and to hear people saying he shouldn't use it anymore or he's a bastard for doing it or whatever really upsets me. The guy has EARNED the right to use Son Volt however he damn well wants. Tweedy has done the same with Wilco..as his desire for new sounds and experimentation have changed, he has changed the band members as he has seen fit.

countryBoy · Post by **countryBoy** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:54 pm

My $$$ is on the new work being great and a name change before it comes out. I'll take bets the finished product won't be called SV.

spilt to bill · Post by **spilt to bill** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:48 pm

bozeman, i think the better question is, did mike, jim, and dave serve any purpose to the band son volt? did their contributions have any value at all? if not, then fine, jay and 3 new guys = son volt.

Bozeman · Post by **Bozeman** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:48 pm

Wilco hasn't just replaced one member. Only 2 people are left from the original band. Is that still Wilco? Or should Jeff Tweedy throw away all the name recognition he's built with Wilco because he's passed some critical percentage of band members replaced? Should the Young brothers rename AC/DC because they're the only orignal members left? I just don't get it, it's Jay's band, he has the right to use it as he sees fit.

spilt to bill · Post by **spilt to bill** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:43 pm

sure if you take one member out of Wilco or Kiss or bill berry out of REM i can understand that argument. but if 75% of the band has been replaced along with their contributions and creative thought process its likes saying they had no input or say in ANYTHING the band did to begin with. IMHO he's minimizing the other 3 to simply intrumental/touring support with no value whatsoever. why didn't jay just revolve several different musicians throughout all 3 albums, but as long as he's the constant then he can still call it son volt? please...

Bozeman · Post by **Bozeman** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:30 pm

So Spilt to Bill, do you think Wilco should be called Wilco? Only 2 guys left in that band from the original?

Bozeman · Post by **Bozeman** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:28 pm

No it won't be the old Son Volt, but it will be Son Volt as Jay Farrar defines it. I never said it would sound the same, but it will be Son Volt as Jay wants it. I'm not trying to disagree with you TinyE, but by that logic, Wilco should not longer be called Wilco, REM should no longer be called REM, Kiss isn't Kiss, AC/DC isn't AC/DC..I could go on and on. Very few bands keep the same lineup through out the lifetime of the band. That doesn't mean you change the name of the band. I feel how the name Son Volt is used is compeletly Jay's to decide. It's *his* band like Wilco is Jeff's. He can hire and fire whoever he sees fit, just as Jeff has.

spilt to bill · Post by **spilt to bill** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:26 pm

i completely agree with you ball hair. you take robert plant and add 3 new guys and they're supposed to be zeppelin? a perfect example is the pixies. black francis got back together with the original lineup and they are currently touring as the pixies. when the pixies originally broke up and black francis got together with 3 completely different artists, did he call them the pixies again? no, it was frank black and the catholics. mike, jim, and dave were part of the creative process in the band son volt in some way shape or form. by calling jay and 3 new guys son volt completely takes away from all the contributions mike, jim, and dave made. its definitely a slap in the face IMHO... now regardless of whether or not there was a conflict or any type of animosity between the original band members, the fact remains that they are not collectively contributing to the same cause. that to me means that jay and 3 new guys are a completely new entity. call them Farrar J and the Existentialists or something for all i care...

TinyElvis · Post by **TinyElvis** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:21 pm

Bozeman wrote:That's what you're not getting, Ball Hair. Jay is not just the "singer".... Jay is the primary creative source in all music he puts himself into, so in that way he *IS* Son Volt. I contrasted this with other bands like REM where there is a high amount of collaboration, Stipe writes the lyrics, the others write the music. Jay writes everything himself.

Being a musican and having played in bands for many years, I feel I can intellectually comment on this.

Writing the song is only half of it. The little nuances and feel that others bring to the song make all the difference in the world. There are only so many chords and patterns. If just 'writing the music' defined the song, every song that has the same chords would sound just alike. I can point out several songs by various bands that may have identical chords progressions, but sound completely different. It's all feel.. it's all chemistry. You can't force that. Son Volt had it. Maybe this new band will have it.. but it won't be Son Volt.

TinyE