WILCO Chicago

jeffra · Post by **jeffra** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:23 pm

As Hoosiers say:

Boosh

Lawrence Fan · Post by **Lawrence Fan** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:56 pm

Regardless of who wins, I am hardly seeing a "mandate from the people". Either way half the country is going to be pissed.

Great TV though. Daily Show is hilarious!

-gk-

jeffra · Post by **jeffra** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:03 pm

people are speaking: Bush

could change by midnight

Sticky · Post by **Sticky** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:21 pm

There hasn't been a President since JFK that left office without some sort of scandal (or at least a reason NOT to vote for them) on their record. And JFK likely would have, had he lived.

LBJ - Vietnam
Nixon - Watergate
Carter - not really a scandal, but recession and hostages
Reagan - Was Iran-Contra Reagan or Bush, or both? Anyway, there were others.
Bush - Iran and taxes
Clinton - Whitewater, Lewinsky

All of these were polarizing events for some people. None got into any real trouble, the same will happen with Bush, win or lose.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:02 pm

Actually Clinton was impeached by the House, but the Senate voted NOT to remove him from office. In retrospect it was quite insane and COMPLETELY political.

Bush hasn't been charged with or convicted of any crimes yet, but that time will come I am sure.

H-Bomb Henry · Post by **H-Bomb Henry** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:43 pm

jeffra wrote: Its just a little insultaive to me when Tweedy calls Bush a "liar and criminal".. You know I didn't like Clinton but you would not find me calling the sitting president a liar and criminal in a public forum. Keep the politics off the stage...just give me the music..man

Clinton lied about getting a "bj" which resulted in him having to sleep on the couch and was nearly impeached. Bush lied about WMD and as a result a lot of civilians and soldiers are dead and Haliburton is left to profit. So to get ridiculed by a musician such as JT is much better than being nearly impeached.

Now granted I do get my fill of stars and musicians stating who I should vote for. Just because they are on a stage doesn't mean that they have a better view of what's going on. I definitely will not vote Kerry because P Diddy or Ben Affleck said so.

jeffra · Post by **jeffra** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:27 pm

I agree to disagree with Hank, but hey that's Americans in action!....I am glad that we can express our views on a daily basis without being persecuted.

The Christianity arguement that Hank makes is off a little...but he has the right motives.
You are absolutly right saying that you can be against an administration and still love this country. I happen to support the administration and love my country at the same time.

Its just a little insultaive to me when Tweedy calls Bush a "liar and criminal".. You know I didn't like Clinton but you would not find me calling the sitting president a liar and criminal in a public forum. Keep the politics off the stage...just give me the music..man

Sticky · Post by **Sticky** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:19 pm

Interesting discussion. You guys are generating a lot of lurkers. I'll not bother you with my views, but have noticed that both sides of this arguement are using sterotypes, cliches and information that is either incorrect or inaccurate. The President, like a head football coach or quarterback, gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things don't. Know your Congressmen and Senators views too.

I don't care who you vote for, just so long as you vote. It's quite a priviledge that not everyone in the world has.

cheers!

hollywood44 · Post by **hollywood44** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:17 pm

Environmental issues alone are enough for me to vote Kerry. Bush has rolled back environmental legislation and gutted the EPA. Christine Todd Whitman resigned as EPA head b/c she felt handcuffed by the administration - and she was a Bush appointee!

Judging by lyrics to songs like Cahokian, Sauget Wind, Feel Free, etc., JF may share similar sentiments.

While he is not overtly political, it's all right there in the songs, and no one seems to be screaming about Jay being "political". There's a long tradition of music and politics mixing (late 60s/early 70s, anyone?). The people who labeled hippies and musicians traitors at that time were those who wanted to preserve the status quo and felt threatened by possible change.

JT, JF, Bruce, Toby Keith, whoever [now even Eminem]...they should be applauded for speaking out, not browbeaten for doing so.

thediechiltons · Post by **thediechiltons** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:56 pm

VERY well said, hank.

i did as i have always done.
i wrote in Paul Westerberg.

now that's freedom.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:50 pm

FEAR, the Bush administration has attempted to keep the nation in a constant state of fear since 9/11. THey are the only ones who can protect us from the big bad terrorists. There may be an attack soon, be careful. etc.

More on that later.

OK Really, I am hungry. I told you I would be brief, surely you can work with this to come back at me!!

Cya in a bit.

On a very serious note if I may, you CAN be against the president and against the war in Iraq, and still be a patriotic proud american, which I truly am. I never take for granted that we can get up on election day and go through a peaceful process of choosing our leaders. It is amazing how great a country we are. We can disagree, but not kill each other, we can disagree with the leaders, and not be killed. We have a great nation, we all should be proud and honored to be here. No matter who wins or loses, America is far greater than one man or one leader, it is about all of us. Freedom rules.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:49 pm

As far as the religious right, I am not trying to put down Christianity. I was raised a Southern Baptist (now consider myself nothing at all), and most of my family still are active members of the church. I have nothing but respect for peoples religous beliefs (ALL RELIGIONS, NOT JUST CHRISTIANITY). The problem I have is the influence of the Christian Coalition on the Bush admin, their view that their idea of morality is the only right one, and that we all need to be molded into their views. Again, the word INTOLERANCE comes to mind. You can be a good and moral person WITHOUT being a Christian. I don't mind that they have a lobbying body to influence their candidates. My problem is that this country is not based on Christianity or the Bible, it is based on the Constitution. Many of the relgious types influencing Bush believe that ONLY thier views are right, and ONLY THEIR views should be part of our governmnet. They should have nothing to do with our government, we are governed by the Constitution, not the church or the bible or anything else.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:49 pm

Please note as I have said many times before, I am a veteran myself and fully suppor tour troops ina ll that they do. THey are following orders, it is the people giving the orders who are WRONG.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:47 pm

Does anyone really think that democracy is going to work there? I have my doubts. There is a very good chance we are going to lose the war in Iraq. There is a very good chance that Iraq is going to become a radical fundamentalist Islamic state. How many more lives (1100+ of our best and brightest so far dead, thousands more injured and suffering, 100K+ dead and injured INNOCENT Iraqi civilians) are worth it to install a Democracy there, where we don't even know if it will work, or more importantly if the people want it.

More on that later, my stomach is growling.

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:46 pm

The war in Iraq is wrong because, to quote the next president, "It was the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time". I voted for George W in 2K and had a great deal of respect for him, and that respect magnified after 9/11 and the great leadership he showed. When we went into Afghanistan after the Taliban and Al Qaeda, I was so happy and proud. War is a bad thing, but when you are fighting for your freedom, for your nations survival, when you are going after the enemy who hit us hard and took so many of our people, it is a must. I was all for it and proud. Then he went off track. He came up with Iraq as a continuation of that war, which is WAS NOT. Saddam Hussein did not attack us on 9/11, could not attack us, was not involved in any way with the people who attacked us. It was not and is not part of the war on terrorism, except for the fact that now WE have created a terror problem in there by the said vaccuum that was created with our entry into their country.