Country Boy Wrote: "35-40k doesn't go far unless you want to live in an apartment downtown and never save $$ for being old. My household brings in around 130k combined and we can hardly afford our mortgage and expenses. Not to mention my liver is half diseased from drinking myself to sleep trying to figure my way out of debt."
Country Boy, if your bringing in 130 thousand and and can hardly get by, you need to take a money management class! I think 35-40 thousand is fine...do you really need the best house/car? Jay, Jeff and the others arent living in cardboard boxes!
new guy:"Why did Son Volt break up?"
Re: yup
I think sam6025 was honestly just trying to shed some light on the subject. Whether or not he's 100% correct, I don't know, but I don't think he was trying to be holier-than-thou in his assessment. Actually, the "tiny little bands" do know quite a bit about the struggles of a musician. What precious piece of information can you provide us with? Oh that's right, you already did.... people in "tiny little bands" should keep their mouths shut. Thank God for you. Whew.wilco1836 wrote:Some people here that play in little tiny bands think they are music biz experts.
Talent is neither a prerequisite nor a guarantee for success in the music industry. That said, there are thousands of kick ass tiny little bands working their butts off that a lot of us will never hear. They're not experts in the music biz, but they do know how the numbers work. Or shall I say, don't work.
Another downside to the business is that many musicians never get a college degree. Those are important years for a musician (18-25). It's very hard to go back to school and support yourself (let alone a family). The choice to become a musician has it's upside and it's downside.
The amount of absolute bullshit being spoken as fact around here is amazing.
peace
The amount of absolute bullshit being spoken as fact around here is amazing.
peace
Last edited by Sticky on Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ChiDavid78
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:31 pm
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Grotto Slack
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:56 am
Yeah, bands that get 3,000 dollar guarentees also tend get another luxury: backstage riders. In this agreement, they don't get things that say Def Leopard does, but they generally have requests for certain types of beer and a dinner of some sort, sometimes even drugs and maybe a bottle of champagne for when they come off stage.
A major label might lend you the money to buy or lease a tour bus. But if you have a tour bus to begin with, you're making money as an old used one might cost 100k. A nicer one will run you 300k and a true rock star ride more upwards of 700 to a million. Plus you have to pay a driver.
another thing that sam6025 did not take into consideration was that working bands play 200 to 250 shows a year. So even if you're only making 200 bucks a night, that's still 20k a year bare bones- not including record sales, royalty checks, merch.
Now, think more like making 400 or 450 a night and you'll have a better idea. Also, while there are certainly nights the band only makes the guarentee, there are certainly nights where they pack the venue out and make 5,000 dollars.
I'm not saying these guys are rich, but they are making a living, get a per diem on the road to pay for extra meals, etc. A band doing well will provide its members with $50 a day per diem. Now if you eat the free continental breakfast and the catered dinner you can skimp on only buying 1 meal a day and making an extra 40 bucks. I don't think SV quite ever made it to that level, but they might of had a $25 a day per diem.
A major label might lend you the money to buy or lease a tour bus. But if you have a tour bus to begin with, you're making money as an old used one might cost 100k. A nicer one will run you 300k and a true rock star ride more upwards of 700 to a million. Plus you have to pay a driver.
another thing that sam6025 did not take into consideration was that working bands play 200 to 250 shows a year. So even if you're only making 200 bucks a night, that's still 20k a year bare bones- not including record sales, royalty checks, merch.
Now, think more like making 400 or 450 a night and you'll have a better idea. Also, while there are certainly nights the band only makes the guarentee, there are certainly nights where they pack the venue out and make 5,000 dollars.
I'm not saying these guys are rich, but they are making a living, get a per diem on the road to pay for extra meals, etc. A band doing well will provide its members with $50 a day per diem. Now if you eat the free continental breakfast and the catered dinner you can skimp on only buying 1 meal a day and making an extra 40 bucks. I don't think SV quite ever made it to that level, but they might of had a $25 a day per diem.
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freeuntilcaught
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:16 pm
- Location: portland
the blue bus is calling us
so they got drunk for free And had a designated driver. Why else would anyone want anything to do with a major label but for the perks? Wouldn't a tour bus be one of those perks?Grotto Slack wrote:Son Volt wasn't paying bartabs. They also has a tour bus. And since you've been out on the road so much, you know how much money a band has to make before they can have a tour bus. its a alot.
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Grotto Slack
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:56 am
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I Am Who Am
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:15 am
"Mike Heidorn is back teaching I believe. That's what he did between Uncle Tupelo (he quit after March 16-20) and when he joined Son Volt. For all intents and purposes, he was done being a musician. I'm sure he's not broken apart by the band ending, he's still got his wife and kids, plus a real job."
FYI
Mike isn't and never was a teacher. And he doesn't have a wife or any kids. As for real jobs, come on, playing in a phenominal band like son volt is everybody's dream come true, no matter how hard the life (boo hoo) or rotten the pay. What could be better, especially when you do not have a family to support. Jay is the only one with a family, and he's out on the road constantly. I have a steady job. I'll trade them any day.
FYI
Mike isn't and never was a teacher. And he doesn't have a wife or any kids. As for real jobs, come on, playing in a phenominal band like son volt is everybody's dream come true, no matter how hard the life (boo hoo) or rotten the pay. What could be better, especially when you do not have a family to support. Jay is the only one with a family, and he's out on the road constantly. I have a steady job. I'll trade them any day.
sounds right
I saw an article about this on the Elephant 6 site about the Apples in Stereo. Even after some of their music was used in a Sony commercial and being paid a record advance they were still living in an apartment, working part time and couldn't afford a new crib for their baby.
Not to be rude on a first post, but unless you've spent any time on tour with a band or been in a band, you make baseless claims.
A) The Boquists are currently doing plenty of session work and acting as touring musicians. This is what they did before, during and now after Son Volt. Son Volt was just the homebase, the steady check. They knew in the time between Son Volt albums when Jay was writing, that they would have to work for other musicians to make ends meet, etc. It's the life of the professional musician. They didn't miss a beat. I'm sure they keep in touch with Jay about a future and may even look forward to future Son Volt material. As I learned in an interview with Jay, Son Volt's recording of "Open All Night" from the Nebraska tribute was recorded after the Sebastopol sessions. Jay left no one hanging or hoping, they were all professional who knew there would be downtime and now is a downtime...possibly neverending.
B) Mike Heidorn is back teaching I believe. That's what he did between Uncle Tupelo (he quit after March 16-20) and when he joined Son Volt. For all intents and purposes, he was done being a musician. I'm sure he's not broken apart by the band ending, he's still got his wife and kids, plus a real job.
C) You people take nothing into account on your estimates of what people make. Musicians are homeless for the most part. You can't pay rent and still tour. Most bands tour for 6 months at a time so they can spend all that time on the road since they're homeless. After hotels, gas, equipment upkeep, roadies, vehicle repairs, food, new clothes, etc. Most bands are left with no money. Maybe enough to pay for the first month in an apartment and they work real jobs or play locally for money to pay for their homes til their leases are up and the road calls again. Even with the money Jay makes from the UT reissues, Son Volt royalties, etc. He still makes no more than an average office worker. Unless you're a pop product on MTV, you don't make a fortune as a musician.
People brought up the 3K for a show reference...it's a good starting place for some mid level bands. The two show average is good, because while they play 6 shows a week while on tour, they play 0 a week when not on tour.
3000 dollars
-100 gas
-100 food
-100 vehicle upkeep
-150 hotel room
-100 roadhand salary
- 50 drumsticks, strings, etc
- 50 unseen disaster
- 50 clothes
- 50 bar tab (most clubs only supply limited bar tab; usually 2 drinks a piece)
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2250
/5
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450 a piece
out of this comes extra food, cell phone bill/pay phone, entertainment, major car repairs, major instrument replacement, etc.
More than likely, they make about $200 a night to take home with them or less. We'll say a band plays 5 nights a week for 6 months a year. They would clear $26K a year...this is for a medium band with no stage show, one member road crew, completely self-managed without merch costs or revenue.
A) The Boquists are currently doing plenty of session work and acting as touring musicians. This is what they did before, during and now after Son Volt. Son Volt was just the homebase, the steady check. They knew in the time between Son Volt albums when Jay was writing, that they would have to work for other musicians to make ends meet, etc. It's the life of the professional musician. They didn't miss a beat. I'm sure they keep in touch with Jay about a future and may even look forward to future Son Volt material. As I learned in an interview with Jay, Son Volt's recording of "Open All Night" from the Nebraska tribute was recorded after the Sebastopol sessions. Jay left no one hanging or hoping, they were all professional who knew there would be downtime and now is a downtime...possibly neverending.
B) Mike Heidorn is back teaching I believe. That's what he did between Uncle Tupelo (he quit after March 16-20) and when he joined Son Volt. For all intents and purposes, he was done being a musician. I'm sure he's not broken apart by the band ending, he's still got his wife and kids, plus a real job.
C) You people take nothing into account on your estimates of what people make. Musicians are homeless for the most part. You can't pay rent and still tour. Most bands tour for 6 months at a time so they can spend all that time on the road since they're homeless. After hotels, gas, equipment upkeep, roadies, vehicle repairs, food, new clothes, etc. Most bands are left with no money. Maybe enough to pay for the first month in an apartment and they work real jobs or play locally for money to pay for their homes til their leases are up and the road calls again. Even with the money Jay makes from the UT reissues, Son Volt royalties, etc. He still makes no more than an average office worker. Unless you're a pop product on MTV, you don't make a fortune as a musician.
People brought up the 3K for a show reference...it's a good starting place for some mid level bands. The two show average is good, because while they play 6 shows a week while on tour, they play 0 a week when not on tour.
3000 dollars
-100 gas
-100 food
-100 vehicle upkeep
-150 hotel room
-100 roadhand salary
- 50 drumsticks, strings, etc
- 50 unseen disaster
- 50 clothes
- 50 bar tab (most clubs only supply limited bar tab; usually 2 drinks a piece)
----------
2250
/5
----------
450 a piece
out of this comes extra food, cell phone bill/pay phone, entertainment, major car repairs, major instrument replacement, etc.
More than likely, they make about $200 a night to take home with them or less. We'll say a band plays 5 nights a week for 6 months a year. They would clear $26K a year...this is for a medium band with no stage show, one member road crew, completely self-managed without merch costs or revenue.
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countryBoy
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:33 pm
- Location: Denver
not starving
We're not starving. But it spends fast; mortgage, 2 car payments, insurance heath and auto, credit cards, financed furniture and computers and the killer, I have no kids and am single which accounts for the biggest hosing of all income tax about 33% of what I earn. The lyric quote was unintentional. Having a nice home furnished with cool stuff is cool but paying for it all blows. Denver housing is very expensive a 40-50 yr old within 10 miles of downtown sell for over 250,000 if its turn key and fit to live in. Oh yeah and booze.
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The Dude