new guy:"Why did Son Volt break up?"

widespreadchanges
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Post by widespreadchanges »

clarkma5 wrote:selling a normal volume of albums...
.
Hey Clark. What is a normal volume of albums? They make more money touring, no?

My twisted world view leads me to believe that they don't sell but 5 or 6, say, per state. I know that must be wrong.

clarkma5
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Post by clarkma5 »

I Am Who Am wrote:The fact is Jay has been struggling with his solo career. Look at the last Rolling Stone review (if you can call it a review, more like a death "sentence".) Another solo album like TB and Jay would have been finished. I know he doesn't like stardom, but he has to make a living. He had no choice but to regroup Son Volt, especially after Canyon broke up. I wish SV good luck. I'd be happy with another WST.
I think you're having an extremely biased view of things; Farrar, it seems, is doing no better or no worse without SV than with. He's playing the same type of shows, selling a normal volume of albums...

I wouldn't get anything from RS, they're hardly an authority on anything. They have their opinion on TB, and they don't like it. I would say more people out there like it than don't.

Is Farrar gonna become a millionaire with his solo career? Probably not. But his odds are the same with SV. His career will do no better or worse, solo vs. SV in my opinion.

Like I've said before, Farrar knows best. He knows the music he wants to play, he knows what he needs to do to feed himself and his family. It really isn't our place to second-guess him in his own life/career, I don't think.

I Am Who Am
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Post by I Am Who Am »

March 92 was not a departure for Uncle Tupelo, not if you know Uncle Tupelo. It was a logical progression. Folk music is in their blood. Look what Tweedy did with Woody Guthrie's songs. Genius pure and simple. March was pure brilliance, if commie inspired.

The fact is Jay has been struggling with his solo career. Look at the last Rolling Stone review (if you can call it a review, more like a death "sentence".) Another solo album like TB and Jay would have been finished. I know he doesn't like stardom, but he has to make a living. He had no choice but to regroup Son Volt, especially after Canyon broke up. I wish SV good luck. I'd be happy with another WST.

saratoga jay
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Post by saratoga jay »

I Am Who Am
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: desperate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like a last-gasp, desperate attempt to salvage a career. Hope it succeeds.

:?:


sounds to me like somebody must've been whipped one too many times with the Bitter Stick as a child.

so mr. i am,

do us all a favor and don't buy the new son volt record, don't see any future show, continue listening to your UT albums and find something else about Jay/his career you can bitch about. :idea:

Hank Snow
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Son Volt Stuff

Post by Hank Snow »

Excellent post andylest. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that bands would get boring if they stayed the same album after album. Even bands as great as Tupelo or Son Volt or Wilco or Jayhawks, if they did the same old thing every time out it would get boring. maybe it would be "safe" and "sure bet" but musically it would get boring.

Every person is going to have different tastes, different ideas of what Jay or Jeff Tweedy or Gary Louris or whoever's best work was. The important thing about these "artists" we are discussing is thay they don't cater to the wants and desires of the fans or marketing surveys or soft drink companies like the mainstream music industry, they go with their heart and soul and hope the fans dig it, and we always do cause they are incredibly talented people.

I hope the guy who asked why Solt Volt broke up got an answer somewhere in here.

andylest
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Post by andylest »

I realize that I've never sold more than a few hundred albums and things are totally different, blah, blah, blah...the economics are all the same, having a tour bus paid for by your record label isn't anything special, I've interviewed little mall metal band playing 500 capacity clubs who have tour buses. They'll never see a penny of their royalties because they used it on the bus.
That is exactly true. I just stumbled on all this talk about money- and as anyone who has played in bands and put out records at any level will tell you, you don't become a musician to get rich. If that's the goal, sit home and play the lottery every week, because no matter how talented you are, the business side of music does not reward based on merit (in fact, the opposite is usually true.) For mid-level artists that hope to sell 50-100k records, being on your own label is really your only shot at making any money from a record. Even then, you have to be willing to put up with all the business BS that comes with it, which many musicians aren't. Being on his own label doesn't make Jay a "hypocritic capitalist", it makes him smart, because he's probably sick of previous labels sucking every last penny out of everything he's ever done so the execs can go do blow with their million sellers.

The reality is, the economics suck for 99.99% of musicians, and anyone who sits around "waiting by the phone" for ANY musician-employer to call is hopelessly naive. I don't know anyone from SV or UT personally, but I can see that the Boquists and Eric Heywood do session work and tour with other musicians. From an artistic standpoint they might be "waiting by the phone" if SV was really special to them, but clearly they do not depend on Jay for their livelihood.

As for SV breaking up, again I can't speak to the facts. But my suspicion is that Jay simply wanted to move in a different direction or play with different people. It clearly disappointed certain fans, but I don't think many artists really expect every fan to love everything they do. However the bottom line with anything creative is that if it doesn't speak to your soul as an artist, for most it's simply not worth doing. All the sacrifices that come with being a professional musician mean that it can be absolute hell to live on the road if you don't get the creative/artistic buzz from your bandmates every night.

All this SV vs. JF solo stuff is stupid to me, because no one wants to make the same record over and over again, and fans would tire of it anyway. Of my favorites, some have grown in a direction I like (the Jayhawks), some haven't (Wilco). That's just me. My point is, if the time comes that you don't get off (in an artistic sense) from the people you're playing with, it's usually time to move in a different direction. That is the right and privilege of any musician, whether it's the bandleader/employer or the sideman.

-Andy

sam6025
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Post by sam6025 »

Thanks to Glenwood for putting up the Albini link...For some reason I thought I read that Heidorn became a teacher, but now the printing press job seems right. As for the other stuff, I've read interviews discussing that his wife nudged him into joining Jay for Son Volt...so, whatever.

I realize that I've never sold more than a few hundred albums and things are totally different, blah, blah, blah...the economics are all the same, having a tour bus paid for by your record label isn't anything special, I've interviewed little mall metal band playing 500 capacity clubs who have tour buses. They'll never see a penny of their royalties because they used it on the bus.

Anyway, the point of my whole rant was that the band is not hurting for money without Jay, and if Jay officially dissolved the band and then said, "Oh, we're doing another tour now, 6 years later!" This board would be full of "Jay's solo album sucks so he has to go back to Son Volt" posts.

Naysayers are always in abundance. Just enjoy the songs and be happy they're there. If all paths reconnect, we will see something else from Son Volt. When I interviewed Jay Farrar, he said we may see Son Volt again, but not in the capacity they were before...as in, not on a major label and probably not being a full-out working band...more than likely a few shows here and there. Who knows?

Hank Snow
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new guy:"Why did Son Volt break up?"

Post by Hank Snow »

Agreed on the analogies with the stones and the beatles being not exactly spot on, though in later years John, Paul and George basically worked alone on songs. There is no doubt though that both Jay Farrar and Jeff Tweedy's songwriting skills have matured and blossomed greatly over the last 15 years or so.
I did a lot of driving this past weekend, and had the chance to listen to a lot of UT, SV and Wilco, among many other of my favorites. I hadn't listen to Straightaways and Wide Swing Tremolo in their entirety in awhile, and was once again just blown away at how good they are. (Trace as well, though I didn't hear it on this trip. it is my fave of the three). This string of talk has been about Jay Farrar leaving Son Volt and doing solo work and maturing and evolving as a songwriter, is it good or bad or whatever. I think he did the same thing moving on to Son Volt from Uncle Tupelo. When you listen to his work from UT, then listen to SV, the difference is astounding. He is much more mature, confident, painting with much broader strokes if you will. Uncle Tupelo is fantastic, but one of the things that made them so great is their simplistic, raw, DIY, Punk vibe. Son Volt was much more than that, and Jay just continues to get better. The same can be said for Tweedy, to an even greater extent as he really came into his own with Wilco, and went even further. God I love great music. Just the idea that we can discuss this stuff about two such amazing artists and their various bands is amazing. What if all we had to listen to was pop radio all the time, 50 cent and Jay Z and Simple Plan. I would jump off a bridge somewhere.

The Dude

Post by The Dude »

OK.... good question, Freeuntilcaught....

What can I say at this time of night, but what I am feeling.... Son Volt was always to me just another hearing for the old Jay Farrar sound that I knew and loved from Uncle Tupelo. In all truth, it was a sound that had grown stale and old, though still beloved, as the SV albums passed.... by Wide Swing Tremolo, it was way too same-sounding, so that while I still loved the songs, I yearned for something a little different sounding.... that happened for me when I heard the solo work... Sebastopol was a revelation. In some ways, it actually frightened me because I didn't recognize this new muse I was hearing, but overall it was a comforting experience because I knew deep down I was just hearing the same Jay in a more expansive and exhibitive form. Ditto TSGS. Terroir Blues was even better because it was so classic..... almost like hearing a Son Volt album through a time machine (to the future or past I do not know.) In the beginning, I did not care for TB, but now I consider it a touchstone to all the music I listen to, and would refer to it as a truly timeless classic, although I know that most of America would give it a cold shoulder.
So what would a new Son Volt album mean to me??? Well, I guess it really depends.... if it sounded just like WST, I might actually be disappointed, but not necessarily, if it was a Straightaways remake I might like it, if it sounded much like Trace I'm sure I would rejoice, but then again maybe not. If it sounded completely different than any of the previous SV releases, then I ask you, Why? Why not just continue through the solo path if you're not going to sound like the old incarnation? So basically if the question is, what would I think if SV made an album that sucked, my answer would be "it is impossible to make a Son Volt album that sucks, because all of their previous output was at the very least good, so none of their future output could possibly suck, because if it did, the band could not be known as Son Volt, but would rather be a lesser incarnation of a lesser band."

freeuntilcaught
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iamwhouaren't

Post by freeuntilcaught »

:idea:

sort of an asshole emoticon pour vous


hey! there would have been no UT or SV without Jay Farrar. Feel fortunate that he and Jeff both are still around to create let alone that we and you included are around to hear it. It can end in any second. Jay knows what he's doing. He's not Neil and he's not Lou Reed with the Tai Chi guy in tow on tour. Support it or not, but there's still no denying Jay is doing what he wants to do how he wants to do it. Who among us can say that?

Pixies on tour soon and possibly a new album...no one can deny their importance despite their break up...how many years ago now?. I used to get bent out of shape about bands breaking up, but you are a lunatic if you think you can make it through this life without changing and if you do somehow avoid change you're either locked up, in a closet, alone and lovin it, or dead. I say take responsibility for yourself and create if need be, if you can't do it yourself, go ahead and wait for your own personal jay farrar to come back to you to do it for you. He won't come when and how you want him to, if ever.

Just for fun...Hypothetically, what if you hate SV's forthcoming album? What then? I only say that because you have such disparaging comments about his work since Son Volt. What would a new Son Volt record be to you? Anyone? Not just I Am.

"When in doubt, move on, no need to sort it out"

I Am Who Am
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Post by I Am Who Am »

"In Farrar's latest interview (The Dallas Morning News), he indicated that there is a chance SV will get back together"

How long have we been hearing this? Four years now? That was my original point all those posts ago. Four or five years later and Jay is still teasing us and his bandmates about the possibility of getting back together. I say shit or get off the pot. It would serve Jay right if the other SV guys said, sorry dude, we waited five years and now we've moved on with our lives.

A lot of good music could have been made in those five years....I know, you all like his solo stuff. It's okay, I guess, some of it, but nothing I want to listen to over and over again like the UT and SV stuff.

I guess Jay thinks he's Neil Young and SV is his Crazy Horse. I sure hope he has Neil Young's staying power.

Doesn't seem to be an Emoticon of an asshole, so I'll bid you adieu.

modern_glenwood
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Jay Farrar, businessman?

Post by modern_glenwood »

IAmWhoAm's complaints about the direction of JF's solo music reminded me of something and it finally occurred to me - UT fans who didn't like the direction March 16-20 was taking the band.

Musician's are artists, they go where the muse leads them. If you're along for the ride, and find the songs pleasant, then it's a fun trip. This is part of why folks feel such a personal connection to their fave musicians, the changes and growing phases of the artist reflect those of their own lives. If you really dislike what you hear, give it some time, maybe you'll catch up; otherwise I'd suggest jumping ship. If it upsets you so passionately, it can't be good for you, and may be agitating a subconcious desire to live in the past.

As for Son Volt as a business - the poverty truths of the music biz:
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html may well set IAm's mind free.

PS: If you miss the old rocking Son Volt / UT sound, there are plenty of bands out there working it. Some very worthwhile - like Grand Champeen's CD "Battle Cry For Help" - http://mpcrow.home.texas.net/mp3.html - get on their bandwagon and get freaked out when they grow and change.

Sticky
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Post by Sticky »

Hank - Jeff and Jay didn't write together much, if at all. There were always Jay songs and Jeff songs. It's what makes all the Glimmer Twins / Lennon-McCartney analogies fall short. But I agree that both guys are doing their best work. I didn't like Sebastapol at first, but now I hear a lot of old UT in it. I'm still luke-warm about TB, but the live performances prove the songs have legs.

wilco1836 - Guess I had a little Friday afternoon edge going on. And yes, they paid their dues.
wilco1836 wrote: Maybe all of us old hasbeen rockers should start a "supergroup". :lol: Who knows chicks might like a guy in size 40 waist pants.
You don't know how close you are to the truth.

peace
Last edited by Sticky on Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PlayDead
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original post

Post by PlayDead »

The dialogue on this string of messages is interesting. However, I think the original post merely requested info. on the break-up of SV. Too much Jay bashing from "I am who am." In Farrar's latest interview (The Dallas Morning News), he indicated that there is a chance SV will get back together. I say "Kudos" to that. But, at the same time, allow him to explore some new avenues. Some will like it, some will not. But, it's music and musical tastes are obviously subjective.

The Dallas show was great fun. Canyon was a great backing band. Jay let us "see" his new stuff, and entertained us with some old stuff. That's how it goes. It's fun to see a musician try some new twists. The creation of his own label allows him the freedom. Cheers to that! Wilco's "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" messed around with some new stuff, it took me a few listens to get it, and now it's like audio gold. Love it.

Keep it up Mr. Farrar!

Hank Snow
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Jay/Son Volt/Uncle Tupelo/et al

Post by Hank Snow »

I was just curious if the other members of Son Volt really now work at putting up aluminum siding? I am who Am seems really up on their situations. I can't subscribe to the theory that these other guys, all great musicians, depend on Jay Farrar for a job, so he can't do what comes natural to him, Create awesome music, unless it is with them. That seems kind of close minded. If there was a new Son Volt album, that would be awesome, not because the Boquists and others have a job now, but because they put out some of the best music during the 90s. But if there isn't a new album, there is still some amazing and creative music that Farrar is doing on his own. He just keeps getting better and better as a song writer and singer and guitarist. He is one of the most amazing artists of the last 20 years and I for one am glad he continues to explore and be creative. Someone made references to Stones and Beatles, the Stones put out 4 of the best albums ever from 69-73, but after that they kind of stayed in a rut, doing the same old boring "safe" uncreative thing, maybe cause if Mick or Keith left, that would leave Charlie doing aluminum siding somewhere. Look at how boring their music has been for the last 30 years, compared to pre 1973. As for the beatles, they had three great songwriters who did their best work together, never acheiving anything as good seperately. Uncle Tupelo is just the opposite, both Jay Farrar and Jeff Tweedy continue to get better and better. As great as UT was I can't imagine them doing the same old stuff 10 or 15 years later. it would be boring if they didn't mature and expand and grow and be more creative and open to new sounds and ideas and influences. That is what art and music are all about.

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