Son Volt and Joe Biden

[kellyann]

nice call there shuck. i was really quite surprised by the announcement.

[ShuckOwens]

Any predictions for McCain?

My money is on either Gov. Palin, or Sen. Hutchison.

Shuckstradamus will now be accepting your excessive admiration.

[peainthepod]

Plus she's a national complainer and a decent fundraiser.

if she was a decent fundraiser
she wouldn't be $11,000,000
in the hole as far as personel debt to her campaign

[the Watcher]

No guts, no glory.

Should have tossed caution to the wind...Hilary Clinton appeals to a different kind of Democrat, the kind that'll strongly consider McCain. It would have invigorated a Obama's campaign. Plus she's a national campainer and a decent fundraiser.

The Obama campaign woulda been THE talk of the town for weeks.

He didn't want the baggage, that I understand, but...

Hmm, see I don't see the utility in putting Hillary on the ticket at all. I happen to be on board with the Biden pick.

For one thing, I very seriously question how many "undecided" voters there actually are to be swayed. No data, natch, but I have a feeling that a vast majority of voters knew which party they were going to vote for before the primaries even wound down. My sense is that 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of W have created highly polarized the electorate. That's an entirely different conversation though.

As for Clinton, yes, there's a group of Hillary diehards claiming they'll vote McCain as an F U to Obama. I don't actually believe they will, and it stands to reason that that's a very small group of diehards, at any rate. We all know that Hillary has huge negative approval ratings (although those who like her REALLY like her) - putting her on the ticket puts the whole Clinton drama right at the fore of the conversation.

And I'm not saying you're wrong, but what's the certain type of Dem that she appeals to that Biden doesn't? Working class whites go for her over Obama, but Biden (so goes the plan) should be able to bump the numbers there. Women? Can't imagine they'd go McCain over Obama, with or without Clinton on board. More to the point, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't think she'd have taken it even if it were offered.

[Hank Snow]

Biden's comments are nothing, and nothing new. Reagan vs Bush in the 80 primaries had a lot of rivalry and insults as did Johnson vs Kennedy in 60. It's really common place to come out fighting in the primaries and then join forces, despite what you said about your opponent.

It won't be damaging at all for either side.

[megaballs1]

No guts, no glory.

Should have tossed caution to the wind...Hilary Clinton appeals to a different kind of Democrat, the kind that'll strongly consider McCain. It would have invigorated a Obama's campaign. Plus she's a national campainer and a decent fundraiser.

The Obama campaign woulda been THE talk of the town for weeks.

He didn't want the baggage, that I understand, but...

[ShuckOwens]

Any predictions for McCain?

My money is on either Gov. Palin, or Sen. Hutchison.

[m.truslow]

Biden is a great pick. Working class roots, foreign policy experience............and he'll be on McCain's ass big time. He's an attack dog..........which the Dems need. They need to stop being pussies. M.

[hollywood44]

Ran across an interesting WaPo article summarizing Biden's career arc -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02289.html

Apologies in advance if that link doesn't work. I found it through google news, if anyone's that interested.

[hollywood44]

i like biden, but the last thing he is is "change" which
puts a lil damper on obama's platform

Valid point you and Shuck have there, but here's why it's the right choice:
1) the Dem "dream ticket" of Obama/Clinton was never a possibility - on either end, I would imagine

2) Biden's got working class roots and is originally from Scranton, PA - that's a HUGE swing state; and he's widely considered as having a "common touch", an ability to connect with white working class/middle class voters. That's something that Obama is perceived as having a hard time doing, and poll numbers of white blue collar voters tend to support that perception (personally, having grown up in a small, rural, working class town, I think that voting block's trepidation is for a very obvious and unsavory reason - just my take)

3) Biden's got huge juice in the foreign policy arena. So if he's out there saying that BO's the man, that should undermine McCain/________'s arguments that BO doesn't have the foreign policy experience.

4) You could argue that this does NOT cut against the change mandate that BO is running with. After all, it's obama, not biden, that will be calling the shots should they get to the WH. So even if Biden was screaming for the status quo throughout the West Wing, it doesn't mean a damned thing, b/c he's not in charge. Obviously the current P/VP situation has changed that dynamic, by all accounts, but there's no reason to assume that W/Cheney are setting a firm precedent.

5) This whole "attack dog" thing.

6) Sort of a rehash of the above, but he just rounds out the ticket, fills in the perceived gaps in Obama's image/experience/resume.


Or, to put it another way, who would be a better pick?

I'm certainly not a Joe Biden fan, but you raise some good points as well. However, "ultimate Washington insider" status aside, those points may be overshadowed by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoo ... ture=bz302

Granted, if McCain ends up picking Romney, there will be some choice bites to pick from where he lashed out at McCain during the GOP primary. I don't think they'll end up being as damaging as what I included above though. Even if you are not concerned by the two exchanges above, they illustrate my larger point of Biden's bluster being a huge potential problem down the road.

Yeah, somehow I forgot abou that when I was in this thread earlier. I guess it'll be the campaign's job to overcome some of these soundbites. Whatever the level of substance is/was to the Obama-Biden primary disagreements, I don't know that it's a bad thing to run with someone with whom you disagree on some real issues.

And I think there's some precedent for tickets where the principals beat upon on each other during the primary: Kennedy-Johnson? Reagan-Bush Sr? That's top of my head, maybe I'm wrong (especially about the latter). Plus we're in much more of a soundbite era today, for better or for worse (worse in my book, if anyone cares), so this stuff is much more significant today it would seem.

It'll be interesting, that for sure.

Any predictions for McCain? If we use the "rounding out the ticket" school of thought, it'll be someone young (relatively), maybe a person of color. Jindal (sp?) has removed his name from consideration though, right? Swing state might be the biggest consideration - Tom Ridge (PA)?

[ShuckOwens]

...

[hollywood44]

i like biden, but the last thing he is is "change" which
puts a lil damper on obama's platform

Valid point you and Shuck have there, but here's why it's the right choice:
1) the Dem "dream ticket" of Obama/Clinton was never a possibility - on either end, I would imagine

2) Biden's got working class roots and is originally from Scranton, PA - that's a HUGE swing state; and he's widely considered as having a "common touch", an ability to connect with white working class/middle class voters. That's something that Obama is perceived as having a hard time doing, and poll numbers of white blue collar voters tend to support that perception (personally, having grown up in a small, rural, working class town, I think that voting block's trepidation is for a very obvious and unsavory reason - just my take)

3) Biden's got huge juice in the foreign policy arena. So if he's out there saying that BO's the man, that should undermine McCain/________'s arguments that BO doesn't have the foreign policy experience.

4) You could argue that this does NOT cut against the change mandate that BO is running with. After all, it's obama, not biden, that will be calling the shots should they get to the WH. So even if Biden was screaming for the status quo throughout the West Wing, it doesn't mean a damned thing, b/c he's not in charge. Obviously the current P/VP situation has changed that dynamic, by all accounts, but there's no reason to assume that W/Cheney are setting a firm precedent.

5) This whole "attack dog" thing.

6) Sort of a rehash of the above, but he just rounds out the ticket, fills in the perceived gaps in Obama's image/experience/resume.


Or, to put it another way, who would be a better pick?

[kellyann]

i like biden, but the last thing he is is "change" which
puts a lil damper on obama's platform

[ShuckOwens]

...

[Coffee Creek]

Biden got the nod.